Jump to content
oneBoro Forum

Attack versus defence


Recommended Posts

Who's right? Karanka looking for clean sheets or someone like Howe who is looking to outscore opponents?

 

The stats regarding clean sheets are quite interesting, showing that clean sheets are worth about 3 goals scored. Taking this into account it at least partially explains why we aim for clean sheets first and foremost.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/5addedminutes.com/2011/12/10/how-much-is-a-clean-sheet-worth/amp/?client=safari

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Neither are right. Just try and create the best team you can playing the best football you can and be as successful as you can. I don't think we're doing either of those three things right now and what's more I reckon most people would feel the same to some degree.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither are right. Just try and create the best team you can playing the best football you can and be as successful as you can. I don't think we're doing either of those three things right now and what's more I reckon most people would feel the same to some degree.

 

You're right, obviously :rolleyes:

 

However, I do think it's an interesting, and quite surprising, talking point that clean sheets are worth that much.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I think it is too mate, sorry. Wasn't trying to knack your thread. Just saying that I don't believe there is a right or wrong way as such. Points are what you want, not goal difference, not even goals or clean sheets. You just want to win as many games as possible. Is Howe's way better than Karanka's? I dunno. We can say that two seasons ago they finished ahead of us and I reckon there's a fair chance they'll finish ahead of us this season. Does that mean that their way is better or does it mean they have better players or does it mean they've had more luck. How do we measure it other than by the league table?

 

If you chase clean sheets to the extent that you hamper your own chances of scoring goals then does the more important stat become how many points scoring 0 goals gets you? This season we've failed to score 9 times but only kept 7 clean sheets. Looking at those two charts, scoring 0 goals is actually worse than conceding 3.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting, pretty surprised to be honest, especially the part that said a clean sheet was worth roughly 3 goals. It definitely bodes well for our defence, but I suppose the most important thing is finding a balance and that is something that we don't have at the moment. There are some games, like the first half of today, where as a fan you want that balance to be tipped slightly and take a few more risks against a team and commit men forward. If we can get a few new faces in, some players who can make an impact going forward, players who Karanka has faith in to go forward, then we could really progress. I'm guilty of criticising Karanka for being negative, but our defensive record under him is unbelievable really, he deserves credit for that. Just have to hope he and Orta get it right with the incomings this window.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great teams build attack from defense. AK is clear on that. We've got a solid base for defense and now we need to build on midfield. Whilst we have some ball winners in the middle we are struggling to have that box to box effort e.g. old Gerrard style. Once we sort that I think we may see a better attacking output. It's ok saying we need attackers but we need the creators in middle and wings first

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a good thing to build the way Aitor has and sort the defence out first. However, there has to be a point where you have some balance and play some attacking players, particularly against poor teams with poor defensive records. Playing 5 defenders and 3 defensive midfielders against Watford is just lacking any ambition to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a good thing to build the way Aitor has and sort the defence out first. However, there has to be a point where you have some balance and play some attacking players, particularly against poor teams with poor defensive records. Playing 5 defenders and 3 defensive midfielders against Watford is just lacking any ambition to me.

 

It is yes, but last time we played them we lost. I'd rather take a point than lose all three

Link to post
Share on other sites

Given the way some of our fellow relegation strugglers let in goals, I agree with the 'sort out the defence first' approach. That goal difference column could make all the difference for us once again.

 

My only concern up until this window (awaiting to see what happens after of course) is that we aren't really improving at the other end while retaining one of the best defences outside the top 6. It's not yet felt like defence first, more defence always.

 

I hope we do add some of the names mentioned this window. Bojan, Bamford and Snodgrass/Deulofeu, adding to Gestede, would represent an entire window spent trying to improve our attack. And that intent at the very least is promising.

 

It's nice in a way that we have managed to put together such a good defence for this level in barely any time at all as it has afforded us the opportunity to go through January whilst barely having to consider any improvements in that area of the pitch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Given the way some of our fellow relegation strugglers let in goals, I agree with the 'sort out the defence first' approach. That goal difference column could make all the difference for us once again.

 

My only concern up until this window (awaiting to see what happens after of course) is that we aren't really improving at the other end while retaining one of the best defences outside the top 6. It's not yet felt like defence first, more defence always.

 

I hope we do add some of the names mentioned this window. Bojan, Bamford and Snodgrass/Deulofeu, adding to Gestede, would represent an entire window spent trying to improve our attack. And that intent at the very least is promising.

 

It's nice in a way that we have managed to put together such a good defence for this level in barely any time at all as it has afforded us the opportunity to go through January whilst barely having to consider any improvements in that area of the pitch.

 

Yeah i agree with all this. If we end up in Jan with Bamford, Bojan and possibly Snodgrass it will be interesting to see if this brings goals.. if it does we'll be a very good team indeed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you start with clean sheets and work forward. Now we have this base we can move on to being just as defencive but also create more chances. All we need are some very very good players , the sort of players that don't compromise our defencive shape but add more to our attacking. You know !!!the expensive ones

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you start with clean sheets and work forward.  Now we have this base we can move on to being just as defencive but also create more chances. All we need are some very very good players , the sort of players that don't compromise our defencive shape but add more to our attacking.  You know !!!the expensive ones

 

You are obviously right. We have build from the back and are now focussing on the forward areas, however I'm still unconvinced that AK knows what to do when he get's those players in. Does he have the ability to utilise increased attacking personel at the club, or will it be more of the same with the new attackers being left frustrated. I hope that he has it in him to implement attacking changes, at least at home, but it's a questin that is open to debate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bang on with the argument that you sort out the defence first. I have no idea on the stats (I am sure some will!) but I always get the impression that it is the teams who go up but can't defend that will come back down again. Watching us is a but like watching paint dry at the moment but I think it is all part of the long term plan.

 

Ultimately the real quality needed to unpick defences is beyond us at the moment and we are in the main looking at players who have been good but have fallen away , or might be good but are a gamble. When we are again established in the premier , which will be next season at the earliest , probably the one after , then we will have the draw to bring in more quality but until then it will be a slog

Link to post
Share on other sites

No one has ever been relegated with a better goal difference than -14, apart from us when we docked 3 points. We are well on course to better -14.

 

We could well set a new Premier League record Curtis.

 

Like Rudy did on Saturday!! (32 consecutive PL games without a win).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...