starbuy
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Posts posted by starbuy
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I'm sad and disappointed it didn't work out for Karanka. He'll go on to have a good career as a manager but I think he needs to step back and learn a bit from this experience. We don't really know what's been going on behind the scenes but Agnew isn't the man for me and we'd be certainly relegated. I hope we have a solid and sensible person in mind. If it's true that this decision was made weeks ago then I hope that person is already pretty much agreed.
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Just responding to the "karanka can't get the best out of attacking players", I'd argue he got the best out of bamford, tomlin, Adomah etc. in our 14/15 season. I loved watching our attacking football with that group. Question is why can't he replicate that with arguably better players? Did our forwards just gel that year?
I think we have to think back to the fact that in the Championship we had one of the best squads in the division and the likes of Bamford, Tomlin and Adomah were a*** the best attacking players. We didn't play that much differently to the way we play right now, but because we had the better players overall, we had more of the ball and we were able to create chances.
The difference now is that we no longer have the better players, spend a lot more of our time pushed back into our own half, so our style of play, which was never attacking in the first place, means we create even less now and can't rely on individuals being better than the opposition.
We also lack mobility up front, which used to allow us to defend from the front. Part of our game last season saw the likes of Nugent and Rhodes constantly pressing the opposition and not allowing them to comfortably play out from the back, meaning we regained possession by forcing them to play quickly. Adomah constantly pressed. Ramirez, when up for it, did the same.
Now, we have a striker who only runs and presses the opposition when he feels like (yes perhaps more intelligently but nevertheless different to last season), while Adama only runs when he has the ball. Ramirez has been missing for months now, which means we no longer defend from the front, no longer press enough and are constantly pushed back into our own half by teams who have more possession than us.
Quite often the only player to truly press the opposition in their own half if de Roon. I think it is this reason that Karanka had to switch away from our favoured formation with Ramirez at number 10, because without enough pressing and mobility up front, the battle is immediately fought in the midfield area instead.
Without a change in philosophical approach, I don't think Karanka CAN get the best out of our attacking players in the "only" way we know how to play, which is why we're going down with a whimper.
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I have us bottom on 27 points going down with Swansea and Sunderland, with Palace surviving in 17th position on 28 points. It's going to be that tight!
I honestly can't see where our goals are going to come from. We've got no momentum, no consistency and no clue in the final 3rd. We don't defend from the front any more, our lone striker spends much of his time stood on the half way line and I can only see us grinding out a few draws.
We don't play with any intensity, never on the front foot. We pass the ball nicely at times in our own half but seem to get a nose bleed as soon as we get close to the opposition box, and I don't recall the last time we had a clear cut chance in front of goal in the league.
Unless something changes, I'm afraid I agree with most pundits that we're sleepwalking into relegation. I really hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the first choice 11 getting us through this.
Someone's got that Friday feeling! :P
I know! Imagine if I'd typed this up on a Monday! :D
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I have us bottom on 27 points going down with Swansea and Sunderland, with Palace surviving in 17th position on 28 points. It's going to be that tight!
I honestly can't see where our goals are going to come from. We've got no momentum, no consistency and no clue in the final 3rd. We don't defend from the front any more, our lone striker spends much of his time stood on the half way line and I can only see us grinding out a few draws.
We don't play with any intensity, never on the front foot. We pass the ball nicely at times in our own half but seem to get a nose bleed as soon as we get close to the opposition box, and I don't recall the last time we had a clear cut chance in front of goal in the league.
Unless something changes, I'm afraid I agree with most pundits that we're sleepwalking into relegation. I really hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the first choice 11 getting us through this.
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Absolute ***.
The crowd were nothing but positive. To state that they were and are responsible for the players "resorting" to long balls is kidology of the highest order. It's an excuse at worst and diversionary tactics at best.
Spot on Humpty, my cousin is a West Ham supporter and the West Ham fans were saying how well the Boro crowd got behind the team, Karanka is talking ***. Those who are saying Boro fans are being over sensitive should look at the players if Attack, Attack, Attack is all it takes to upset them Jesus.
Except that this may well be the issue. If the players felt pressured by that chant, which helped them play that way then Karanka is trying to protect his players by deflecting the blame away from them. I don't think it will work and I also feel in agreement that it may have had something to do with sticking a big tall lump up front that helped the players go long.
As for the tactical reasons why they may have been forced to go long, what frustrated me most was that we had Traore dropping deep to pick up the ball constantly and for those last 10 minutes they almost all ignored him and kicked it over his head.
I didn't like the tactics in those last 10 minutes, the tension from the crowd suggested they didn't like the tactics in those minutes either. Maybe the intention from the crowd was to be positive. Clearly plenty of people feel the atmosphere was great and there was no tension. Differences of opinion. Not all 30,000 people there are going to agree, but in my opinion the tension and frustration was there.
Either way, though, the players need to live with it and follow their instructions.
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Having read Karanka's latest comments on the issue, I'm inclined to agree with him. The atmosphere wasn't "awful" in the usual sense. However, I suspected what he was doing with those comments was protecting his players and borne of frustration at seeing his players so distraught.
I watched us play in a certain way for 80 minutes and then stop playing that way. I heard the fans chanting and also felt the frustration in the crowd - it wasn't awful but it was there. Based on his latest comments, so too did the players and there has obviously been dressing room talks that allude to the atmosphere or influence of the crowd and the pressure the players feel.
Personally, I think we should be happy because it shows that the players care and want to give the crowd success. It doesn't matter how professional you are, the crowd can always influence you. We've discussed this years ago when our crowd was tetchy, nervous and you could see that it translated to the players.
Whether you agree with the atmosphere or not, it seems apparent that it affected the players and Karanka is trying to protect them from that. Again, you can argue that perhaps his frustration also comes from the fact that the players allowed themselves to be influenced by it, but I don't blame him for wanting to stand up for them.
I'd rather have a manager that stands up for what he believes is best for the team rather than not saying anything for fear of upsetting some of the 30,000 crowd.
I'd also love for that manager to hire an attacking coach who can help him turn our controlled possession into actual chances created too though! :-)
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And like I said earlier, why downplay his set piece ability? In a side that struggled to create chances that could well be our best chance of scoring in quite a few games and it's an area we're particularly weak in despite having quite a lot of good headers of the ball.
Exactly. If I had to watch Forshaw put another corner straight onto Andy Carroll's head on Saturday I'd have screamed myself ho***.
Funnily enough this is one of my biggest frustrations too. Against Liverpool I lost count at around 6 set pieces that Traore won in and around the box (including corners) and yet not one of those set pieces caused Liverpool any problems. A proper set piece specialist would be most beneficial. I once thought Downing could have been that for us but his delivery isn't what it was these days. Was it one of the recent games (West Ham) when I watched him take a set piece and loft it over everyone's head and straight out of play?
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The real question is how much of an effect will the past few days of speculation have on players deciding to join us or not? From an outsiders perspective, we've got a manager who allegedly spits his dummy out and walks out when the going gets tough, fans who put too much pressure on the players, unhappy players who want to leave, players in the squad who have been treated really badly and what seems like a manager on his last legs. I say all of this allegedly because most of it is hearsay but has caused enough media traffic to see any potential signing question whether this is a place to be right now.
If Bojan is interested in coming to play for Karanka and then reads that Karanka may be on his way out, who would blame him for having second thoughts?
There hasn't been much coming out of the club to show any signs of unity and for me it needs to be quickly nipped in the bud and faith in Karanka being here for the long term restored.
The last thing we need is the club to make any statement in support of the manager, because then everyone will think he is definitely on the way out.
Haha, true. Then we're obviously in trouble!! Damned if we do, damned if we don't. Let's hope the majority of these players don't read social media. Maybe Jese is the most obvious since he doesn't speak English anyway! ;)
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The real question is how much of an effect will the past few days of speculation have on players deciding to join us or not? From an outsiders perspective, we've got a manager who allegedly spits his dummy out and walks out when the going gets tough, fans who put too much pressure on the players, unhappy players who want to leave, players in the squad who have been treated really badly and what seems like a manager on his last legs. I say all of this allegedly because most of it is hearsay but has caused enough media traffic to see any potential signing question whether this is a place to be right now.
If Bojan is interested in coming to play for Karanka and then reads that Karanka may be on his way out, who would blame him for having second thoughts?
There hasn't been much coming out of the club to show any signs of unity and for me it needs to be quickly nipped in the bud and faith in Karanka being here for the long term restored.
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Probably an unpopular opinion, but I'd leave Forshaw out of the team for Downing if we're continuing with 3 in the middle, and leave him out for an attacking player if we're going back to 3 behind the striker. His displays were eye catching earlier in the season, but he doesn't offer enough going forward, or isn't as defensively solid as Clayton, De Roon or Leadbitter either. I just don't feel like he's currently bringing a lot to the party, and think Downing would have much more joy in that role.
It's a fair comment and I agreed with your opinion on Friend on twitter too. De Roon has really come into his own and is currently first choice CM for me.
Agreed here too, in fact I said on here yesterday that if I were to replace any of the midfielders at the moment it'd be Forshaw. Clayton is doing his job and doing it reasonably well, De Roons pressing from that kind of number 10 position is really good and often forces mistakes from teams. Forshaw is a bit too neat and tidy for me at the moment, yes he has fantastic passing accuracy and makes a lot of them but how many actually create a chance or even put us in a good position to make a chance?
I'm inclined to agree. Forshaw has been one of our best performers this season up until the last few games, where I feel he's failing to impress as much. It may be down to the way we're playing but I think it's time for a rest of Forshaw. The problem is we've only got like for like. The only player to replace him, in the current formation, is Leadbitter who isn't up to much more than Forshaw either.
For those players to be successful in that midfield they need both movement in front of them (while most of our forwards are static) and players willing to come and take the ball off them and carry further. Let's hope we get some of that in this transfer window!
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Wouldnt it just be amazing. Last minute. Free kick. Leadbitter gets the ball. But Downing comes over and snatches it out of his hand. Grant looks annoyed but Stewy just whispers..."trust me, sweet prince".
He steps up and the crowd are banging all as one. He looks up, then down, and exhales, eyes glued on the ball. He runs up and the whole of the Riverside holds its breath.
The ball curls up over the wall with the keeper stood still, the ball nestles into the top corner and Downing wheels away in celebration, running over to Aitor. They both hug each other as the team descend onto them.
The camera pans to Steve Gibson who is stood still, and wipes a tear away from his eye. Gibson can be seen to say something along the lines of, "thats my boy".
SCENES
I'll have some of what you're having!!
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A lot has been said (media, opposition managers, fans, etc) that Karanka has no Plan B if its not working.
My take on next season, regardless of what division we are in ( hopefully Premier)that without abandoning our usual formation, that Aitor and his coaching staff should try to adapt the players to different styles and formations, 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 for instance, which would give us more options when things aren't going right. Perhaps even bring in another addition to the coaching staff an attack minded experienced coach for instance.
The current system of play has got us 3rd in the league, but certain games, we have ran out of ideas by sticking to the same system, in certain games this season and last, and sometimes changing the formation and having a Plan B & C can work dividends.
I also think we have to bear in mind this is a young head coach/manager still learning his trade, and he may well feel the need for change.
I think 3-5-2 was how we should have turned round the Charlton game. Both our fullbacks were high up the pitch because Charlton didn't commit their wingers forward at all. They relied on the pace of their front 2 to cause us problems. With our fullbacks so high up the pitch it was often 2 v 2, while the gaps we'd like to exploit weren't there because they had 2 banks of 4 sitting deep.
Had we switched to 3 centre backs, with wing backs providing the width we could have played 2 up front, Ramirez in a free role behind and still kept the 2 central midfielders. I think this would have nullified the Charlton threat while providing us with more power up front to force a mistake and create better chances.
I happen to like the formation we do play in general because it can adapt and switch depending on the current situation. But to do this it depends on the players keeping up the energy and intensity required. I definitely agree that we should have a plan B. I can't think of a game where we've visibly switched it round and made a difference.
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How about we don't be anti anyone, get behind the lads and get this club promoted to the premier league. I am pro Middlesbrough FC.
I'm not one to be unnecessarily negative but I think there's one key aspect that needs to be faultless from now on for us to get promoted. We can't afford to carry any more players. In every single game from now on we absolutely must get 100% commitment on the pitch from every single player.
I'll be there supporting the team as always, but recent performances have left a sour taste. I can accept that things going on can affect people's performance, but from now on it absolutely has to be 100% drive and commitment from every single player. Anything less and we won't stand a chance - we've blown any luxury of being allowed to lose games now - they've all gone. Every single game is a must win, because believe me when I say that if we don't go up because of 3 points lost at Charlton in the most pathetic performance since Yakubu spat his dummy out then the whole situation will have been the worst thing to happen at the Boro since the 3 point debacle.
I stand by Karanka's belief that if this team plays with the intensity that he wants, very few will be able to stop us. Any player who isn't capable of that shouldn't be playing and if they play and don't put in that effort then I really hope they are the first to be out the door regardless of where we play next season.
Everything that has been going right for the club, the long term strategy, bringing the fans back, bringing the belief back, all of that is in jeopardy now. All that hard work will be undone if we don't get promoted.
There are likely to be multiple parties in the wrong over this but as long as they now draw a line under it all and perform, it might just be okay.
On our side, the fans, I'd like to see us get behind the team 100%. That means no groaning when a player misses, no groaning when someone makes a mistake. This Friday especially, that whole stadium needs to show the players exactly what this club is about, exactly what they should be fighting for on the pitch, exactly who they represent when they pull on that shirt, and how much we want them to succeed.
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Absolutely disgusted right now. Everything Karanka has been blasting his players for was yet again evident today. No togetherness. No passion. No desire. No fight. No show.
How many players looked like they weren't even quality enough for league 1 nevermind the Championship? Where was the leadership? Leadbitter poor, Downing anonymous, Rhodes isolated. Fry in too deep.
Whatever is wrong within the club is clearly not just down to Karanka. I think we can kiss goodbye to promotion because this team doesn't have the bottle.
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Maybe, I hope so, that a cooling off period has been imposed on all parties to reflect on their actions, in order to get back on track. Didn't AK make it up with both Adomah and Caryol after spats
He is obviously outspoken, harsh possibly, but history does not display him as intransiemt.
Must say as an AK fan that I can't see how you can wipe this under the carpet as if nothings happened .... reluctantly and with regret there can only be one outcome ... thank you AK
I think there can be two outcomes. Steve Gibson must decide between manager or player power. If he trusts his manager, then he tells him to get back in and tell the troublesome players who aren't up for it to go home and they can leave at the end of the season. If he doesn't, and he feels that Karanka has overstepped the mark and is no longer the right person for the club, then he let's him go and then decides if any of the players were out of order and gets rid of them too.
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The expression we win or lose AS A TEAM is very apt because at this time it appears as if we are NOT a team!
It is one of the saddest days in Boro's history that I can recall, never did I think something like this would happen and especially the timing of it all.
Sadly the damage has been done and we must move on and support the 11 players on the pitch
Personally, regardless of what happens with Karanka, I hope that Gibson weeds out the players who aren't up for it and tells them they're not playing for the club again. In no other employment can you not perform and not have any consequences. Only in football can you decide okay I don't like the manager so I'll just do nothing for my 30k a week salary until he leaves.
I think Karanka is likely to be his own worst enemy in this because he strikes me as the kind of person who can't understand when a player isn't 100% committed. His weakness in my opinion is his ability to relate to those who need help getting to that place. He's been a bit too open and honest with his opinion of late and clearly some of our players can't handle the truth. He's said nothing our own fans haven't been saying though.
That doesn't excuse some of the half hearted performanced we've seen from players at times and I think we're losing the best manager we could possibly get. There's a whole host of managers out there looking for a job who I'd want nowhere near this club and I can't think of one manager who is available who I'd actually want.
One thing is for sure, I'll support the Boro, but I don't feel much like supporting players who've led a revolt like this. Yet to hear the real truth of what's gone on, but all I see is players on the bench who haven't performed.
A really sad time for MFC - I hope the players are happy with themselves.
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I'm going to echo Holloway's comments and say that we fans have a MASSIVE part to play in this run in. We've got to get rid of the groans, support the players and make the opposition shrink into their shell. The team is under incredible pressure. They know they should be winning these games, they know they have to win these games, but I often think we're seeing a team playing within themselves. They're not as free as earlier in the season.
Let's get behind them 100% tonight. Let's not allow frustration to creep in because when 20k fans start to get tetchy, the pressure the players already put on themselves is amplified. I can understand the frustration though because let's be honest, we could be 10 points clear if we won the games we should have!!
Let's roar them on, encourage them and support them through it. I watched an ***nal fan today complain about the team and grumble about the fact that only 4 players came over to thank them. If I recall correctly, all of our players applaud the crowd after a game - they appreciate the support so let's get behind them and help get the team over the line.
I think if we hold our nerve we'll win tonight but if we can create a positive vibe we could see a very good win.
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I like the Forward thinking nature of Forshaw and think he should be given more of a chance depending on the opposition. But in my opinion Clayton and an on form Leadbitter are the best pairing, especially when we play a good team.
I think what's been missing over these last weeks is the intensity and I believe a lot of that comes from Leadbitter and Clayton. They cover a lot of ground to make sure they're always available and to close down the opposition and I just think that both have looked leggy in recent weeks. Clayton will benefit from a couple of games off and hopefully come back fresh for the run in, while I think Leadbitter could do with the same thing. He's more than likely to pick up a yellow and serve his suspension and perhaps that is the best way for him to get a rest and a bit of perspective on the side lines and come back firing on all cylinders.
All 3 of those midfielders can play an important part from now on but I definitely feel Leadbitter has been below par recently and probably just needs a rest. He's not getting any younger you know!
We also have to remember that most teams have been putting 5 in midfield to make sure Leadbitter and Clayton don't have an easy job of dominating the space. I've been as furstrated as most these past weeks but you have to give credit to the opposition for figuring out how to make life difficult for us. Maybe Forshaw will just change the dynamics for a few games to allow us to get back on the front foot and controlling games.
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After a few days of recovery after the Blackburn game, my thoughts are that the mentality of the squad is the problem right now, not the formation, not the ability of the players, just the mentality.
When I think back to games earlier in the season, even the Derby game, I think of a team that had confidence in its ability, a team that mentally had every intention of winning. Not just winning the game, but winning the ball, winning the 50/50s. That team played with swagger, with energy, with focus.
Over the past few games I believe all of this has been missing. Against Blackburn I saw the opposition win the ball, beat us to the ball, come out with it in most 50/50 challenges. I saw our players look half-hearted in the challenge. I didn't see the same desire to win I've come to expect.
Uncertainty and fear has crept into our game. Karanka says today that the transfer window has affected his team. Maybe that is the case. It's over now and it's up to him to get that mentality and determination back into his players. A team can't play with the intensity he desires if they're not mentally committed.
I'm confident that if the belief and determination comes back, the chances and goals will flow and so too will the results. It's pretty much as simple as that for me.
MK Dons tonight is a great opportunity away from home. Away from our fans, away from the expectation that now hovers over the Riverside like a dense fog. Anyone at the game on Saturday must have noticed the anxiety from the crowd. The expectations are high (and rightly so) but I think the opposition knows that right now if they frustrate us, force us into mistakes, the groans quickly kick in. For a group of players lacking in confidence, that can't help. I don't care whether people think that they are highly paid professionals and should be able to deal with it, it is simple psychology and they're human and that anxiety in the crowd is going to have an affect on them. If support from the crowd can act like a 12th man and boost the team, then so too can it diminish the team's effectiveness when the crowd is negative. It's catch 22 - we need to bring back the positive vibe, backing the players and urging them on but for that to happen the players need to perform and win back the fans. Numbers are now there supporting the club and that's great, but numbers with expectations can be a monkey on the back when things aren't going well.
Anyway, that's all that is wrong for me. Individual ability is there. Team ability is there. The formation isn't a problem, the mentality is what is holding the team back right now. Get them back to enjoying the football and the good stuff will flow.
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Hello everyone, is the consensus the Rhodes will get goals playing in the current system or will we be changing shape to support him more?
I'm asking because I've observed a lot of Rhodes goals come from one touch finishes on the end of a move and it's not as though any of our strikers have been missing loads of chances.
Apologies if it's already been discussed, I couldn't find it digging through the thread...
I can think of only a handful of misses from our strikers so I definitely think we need to be working on improving the number of chances we create, but I think there are 2 aspects to this. Firstly, Rhodes is a different type of target who has a knack for finding the space to score. Secondly, you'd hope that Ramirez is also going to be bringing some additional creativity.
I recently looked at chances created in the Championship and despite us being the top rated team overall on this website, for chances created we are 14th in the league. Last season we were much higher in chances created table. Here is the table.
The one thing you can say though is that Blackburn created even less than us but Rhodes still managed 11 goals. It doesn't mean all that much as long as you are clinical. Look at Burnley, bottom of that chances created table!
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Anyone read Karanka's comments on the Kike transfer? He says that MFC did everything right and that Eibar also had this same problem last season too. Also says that Kike has a lot of things in his head that are not true. Strange comments!
Sounds a bit weird. Do you have a link for that pls?
In the Gazette today, there are a few comments from Karanka titled "Karanka on Kike's departure".
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Anyone read Karanka's comments on the Kike transfer? He says that MFC did everything right and that Eibar also had this same problem last season too. Also says that Kike has a lot of things in his head that are not true. Strange comments!
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AK favours 4231 and that's what we're going to play for the rest of the season. I can't see him changing philosophy on that now, when we're in second, with a game in hand.
You can wish for 2-3-5 all you want, but it isn't going to happen.
I agree that I don't think Karanka will change the starting formation. However, I do think he may feel that certain players can fulfill the number 10 role (similar to Vossen) in that they're more of a striker/number 10 than a midfielder/number 10. The idea of the formation we play is that it offers flexibility and the players in the final third are able to interchange, but it also works in different ways depending on the natural instinct of the players in that formation.
I spoke to a Spanish friend about Kike Sola recently and he told me that if he's given confidence then he can be very effective and is a physically strong player. Karanka has mentioned he can play in the number 10 role and I wouldn't be surprised to see him there if we're struggling to break a team down and need to have a more physical presence up there with Rhodes. There's been little excitement about this signing but he's got experience in the top level of Spanish football and is very much an unknown for us. The attacking options we've now got are exciting and it will be interesting to see whether Karanka does change things around at times to get the best out of them.
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Probably been talked about, but how are we funding this massive influx of players? Seems like recently we were worried about FFP, and with the amount of incomings over this season (we've spent £25-30m) and not many people going out, it does look concerning. The only player we've let go for something is Tomlin?
My assumption is that with FFP now being measured over a 3 season period, a lot of our expenditure for these deals is balanced across the 3 years. I'd probably say that ticket revenue is up this season compared to last year, while the cup game at Man U will have given us a decent bit of revenue.
But ultimately, I think we're going for it. If we don't get promoted then I suspect we'll have to cash in on some of our assets to keep the books steady.
All just speculation, but you can see we're not the only championship club splashing the cash, so this must be a reasonably safe gamble that is manageable long term if we don't get promoted.
Vectorboro
in Boro Forum
Posted
I only browse this forum these days and haven't logged in for quite some time, but logged in today as VB was instrumental in giving this forum its life and character. A top bloke with a worthy reputation. RIP VB.