Duvel
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Posts posted by Duvel
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If Monk goes you just know someone like Woodgate will get the job next.
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Serious question. Would anyone want to see AK re-instated and taking over this squad of players as it is?
I was a big Karanka fan but id still say no, he's burnt too many bridges within the club. It would be funny to see Downing' s face though.
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Monk didn't even go over to applaud our fans. Get. Him. Out.
Hes not a klopp, he probably knew hed get a mixed reaction and did not want to hear it
That's not an excuse. His job is to get it right, when he gets it wrong he has to take the flak. Regardless of win or lose, he should walk over and applaud the fans who travelled hundreds of miles and spent their hard earned money to support his team, it's the absolute minimum. They'll be here far longer than he is.
Yeah Monk has got to be big enough to take it on the chin, even if he just applauded from a distance it would show some appreciate.
Saying that it's not a sackable offence unlike his actual management :)
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I'm not gonna get into the usual inquest on here, we were up against a strong Bournemouth team and the cup is irrelevant for us because we're never gonna win it.
One point I'll make the commentary team and callers on Tees are talking about poor defending on set pieces. This comes down again to a manager that can't organise his back 4 AGAIN.
I don’t care that it was a “free” game. This team has so many faults it’s beyond belief. Despite spending 45 million Monk is taking us backwards on a game by game ratio.
You don't need to tell me, I would have sacked him weeks ago.
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I'm not gonna get into the usual inquest on here, we were up against a strong Bournemouth team and the cup is irrelevant for us because we're never gonna win it.
One point I'll make the commentary team and callers on Tees are talking about poor defending on set pieces. This comes down again to a manager that can't organise his back 4 AGAIN.
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Just seen the record of monk for the first 13 games at Leeds and boro. Almost identical
Well if he keeps it up, we too can look forward to finishing just outside the play offs.
I'd probably settle for that now its better than a relegation battle :)
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There are some players you can't play out of polsition but most players can play a number of positions. They may not be quite as good elsewhere but it doesn't mean they can't play there. This round holes round peg bit. Wheater was a forward in his youth Gerard played RB on occasions and was fantastic there ,Milner!!!! As I've asked before how long do you need to play a position before your not a square peg
Yeah its usually quite an oversimplified criticism. Good technical players should be able to play in different positions certainly forward thinking players anyway. It might not always be a permanent thing but it can be used to do a job in a certain game.
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Going from his contribution to the latest FM Files podcast, from when he was at Leeds, he really does believe in the adaptability of players. He wasn't alone, Slaven Bilic was saying a very similar thing about footballers today on the back of his experience as Croatia manager, where you can't buy players to fill gaps and have to work with the Croatian national pool, to win tactically at national level it's about either sacrificing your own brand of football or adjusting players to play roles in your system that they perhaps aren't very well known for. They both believed that players are capable of versatility and adapting on a game by game basis.
Karanka said the same in various interviews as well.
Maybe Monk has a philosophy that's far too sophisticated for most of us to understand, the problem is that he needs to translate that into results.
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Downing said that it went from one on the best changing rooms to the worst - ok.
However he also said things were never right in the dressing even in the promotion season. So was it a good dressing room in the first place or not?
I understand him wanting to know why he was dropped but we don't know the context of that either, did he have it out with Karanka in the dressing room or was it a quiet word behind closed doors? Also does a manager have to explain anything to a player? What would Brian Cloughs response have been to Downing?
Even as a Karanka fan I have to admit he probably wasn't a good man manager and in the end he'll look back and realise he blew a really good opportunity here.
The time was right for AK to go but Downing also comes across as a spoilt kid. He says he had to get his head down and let his football do the talking but that never happened. He's got more ability than most of our squad put together but he massively underperformed for us in the promotion season.
In my opinion it boils to mistakes right from the very top, Gibson bought Downing and Karanka didn't want him, it was the same with the Rhodes situation. Surely you've got to have full agreement from all parties before adding to the squad. Karanka is then in a difficult situation where he either walks away from a great job or gets on with it.
You've then got a dressing room with a player coming in with a big ego, the manager has a big ego and they don't get on. The player feels unwanted and the manager expects Maradonna level performances from the player. It was never gonna work and the route of the problen was the man who signed him in the first place.
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Koeman been sacked
Ooooh that's got to be expensive for their owners. Didn't he sign a very long contract as one of the most well paid managers in the Prem(world)?
Everton:-
Earned a lot from player sales in summer and spent big on new signings.
Signings, apart from goalkeeper, not yet lived up to expectations and questioning of how much they paid for some of them.
Probably about 10 places below minimum expectations of owners after the pre-season hype and expenditure.
Don't look to be playing as team.
Described on MOTD2 last night as "Static, lack of pace and fluency, centre forward isolated with no creativity from midfield. Lacking confidence" etc. Etc.
No obvious signs that things were improving.
Sound familiar to anyone?
Of course Koeman has had twelve months more than Monk to get it right!
Koeman started well and had a good first season, it's nothing like Monk. His problem was not replacing Lukaku.
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We were on the decline with Southgate I think that was fairly obvious to anyone going to the games during that period.
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Don't get too pinned down with the money fact, players wanted to leave or needed to be offloaded. Sometimes the players you bring in don't all work out for the best although i think we look ok just the results not. We balanced the books and in this day and age you don't get a lot for your money. What annoys me is this persistent modern day talk of managers for sacking, change the bloody topic.
While we are playing rubbish and not getting results people will keep talking about sacking the manager. Whether you like it or not that isn't gonna change.
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What's gone wrong?
Hiring Garry Monk.
What needs to change?
Sack Garry Monk.
In a nutshell yes!
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I tweeted on Saturday that i've seen enough to suggest we aren't going to be promoted with this management team in charge this season. I've not changed my mind since.
With this squad and the support he's had, is quite frankly criminal.
You are very much in the majority I think.
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Just to play Devil's Advocate, does anyone think there might be an element of The Emperor's New Clothes about Ayala and Gibson? We know how deep lying the CMs were in Karanka's formation, and this could have taken a lot of the work away from them, and made them look a lot better than they actually are. And now Monk has his CMs playing a bit further up, the two of them look a little more exposed?
Obviously I'm not saying they aren't good defenders - you don't get promoted with crap centre backs, but I'm just wondering if we have a slightly distorted opinion of how good they actually are due to the system we played under AK.
I think you're right to some extent I dont think Gibson looked the same under Agnew either when we tried to open up a bit.
Saying that though even this season our defensive record isn't that bad, when you look at the table scoring goals seems to be more of a problem. This is pretty ironic given the Karanka/Monk comparisons everyone has been using all season.
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Duvel..
I think Fletcher was brought in to replace Bamford, I think the plan was to sell Bamford before the window closed which never materialised.
Same goes for Howson for Leadbitter how goes that plan.
Leadbitter as proven a far better leader in my opinion than Howson will ever be. Monk as his favourites that is obvious and he is a cocky sod as well. Its just a pity that Gibson will wait until Feb/March before he admits his mistake in putting this upstart in the managers seat. By that time it will be to late for the playoffs and we may well be still in the championship in 18/19 season.
Thats if we ain't fighting relegation at the end of this season.
I just cannot understand why one of the most inexperienced managers Boro have ever had has been backed with so much money.
AK could well have done with some of it in January to save Boro but was never given it.
I didn't mind the idea of signing another CM if we knew De Roon was leaving but at the moment Howson hasn't been an upgrade whatsoever.
One thing I would say is that Monk clearly isn't getting the best out of Karanka's players like Gibson and Clayton. Maybe that's the case for the new signings as well, hopefully there's a lot more to come from the likes of Howson whether that comes under Monk or more likely IMO someone else.
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That Fletcher money would have been spent far more wisely on a top Championship quality #10 like Jota. At the time it looked a poor decison, and time has reinforced that view. Our squad is poorly balanced for a 4-2-3-1 so if we stick with that then we need to make changes in January as we lack one good quality #10 and are bloated with far too many strikers and central midfielders. In strike why do we need Assombalonga, Gestede, Fletcher and Bamford?. We coped with Kike and Nugent, and then Rhodes and Nugent, in our promotion season. We're in desperate need of a #10 like Ramirez.
I agree.
Dont laugh but I think Fletcher was brought in to replace Bamford, I think the plan was to sell Bamford before the window closed which never materialised.
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Despite the fact that at the start of the season i was totally confused with the signings we had made and what formation we would play, when it comes to results, the simple truth is we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot with some awful mistakes that have proved very costly. I agree we haven't played well either although i am not too surprised by that. In my opinion if Monk realizes that you cannot play Britt successfully as a lone striker and if he realizes that you can play Braithwaite in that position or in a 4-4-2 alongside Britt then for me we might kick start our season. Failing that then i just don't see us doing much at all unless the next transfer window produces something special.
So was I, I commented on here a few times on the transfer thread that I was concerned about the shear number of changes and whether they were necessary. Also I remember some of us being concerned about buying too many similar type players.
For the sake of continuity would it have been worth keeping the likes of Stuani, Fischer and even Barragan? I know people will laugh about the last name but have we really improved that much by selling them and bringing in Christie, Shotton and Johnson?
Obviously we don't know the individual circumstances of all those players And maybe some of them wanted to leave. However I feel like we have wasted a lot of money in the market Fletcher and Howson were pointless signings and have added nothing that we didn't already have. Shotton is a donkey which we knew before he signed and Baker has done very little on loan.
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Christie is English.
And plays for Ireland
Randolph then :)
Now I'm confused!
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Christie is English.
And plays for Ireland
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Heres another interesting stat to add to my anti Monk agenda ;)
#lufc#boro Garry Monk's last 30 lge games:W9 D11 L10 Pts38 =approx 58 over 46 game season and around 15th https://t.co/vZPwqUwInL ratio 30%
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He already thought he found the right one. But if people have trouble getting behind a young unproven English manager who they actually know, how are they going to get behind a young unproven Spaniard?
Not that that is the be all and end all but if you sack the manager right now and replace him with someone who the fans don't even know, it's hardly going to change a lot of people's perspectives on the future.
It’s easy for a young unproven manager of any nationality to get the fans backing. All they have to do is look like they know what they are doing, look like they have an actual plan and start climbing the table.
We did it with Karanka.
Exactly right the nationality of the manager is irrelevant to the fans, all we want is the team looking organised and having some direction.
If Gibson is limiting the club to British players and a British manager he's a fool.
Braithwaite says he will buy foreign players ..and Christie is Welsh :)
Irish isn't he? :)
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Like I've said before, Strachan got a year. Surely that in itself is enough to see why Gibson probably won't sack Monk so soon.
I don't think Gibson has got where he is in life without learning from his mistakes and being ruthless when the time is right.
Maybe he'll think in hindsight he should have given Strachan the push earlier?
I remember people being convinced that Strachan wouldn't be sacked after a year because Gibson 'gives his managers time'.
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He already thought he found the right one. But if people have trouble getting behind a young unproven English manager who they actually know, how are they going to get behind a young unproven Spaniard?
Not that that is the be all and end all but if you sack the manager right now and replace him with someone who the fans don't even know, it's hardly going to change a lot of people's perspectives on the future.
It’s easy for a young unproven manager of any nationality to get the fans backing. All they have to do is look like they know what they are doing, look like they have an actual plan and start climbing the table.
We did it with Karanka.
Exactly right the nationality of the manager is irrelevant to the fans, all we want is the team looking organised and having some direction.
If Gibson is limiting the club to British players and a British manager he's a fool.
Of course that's true in the long run. That's not what I said. The problem some people have right now is that Monk doesn't inspire confidence in the team and people are thus unwilling to give him a chance in games where we come out of it barely ever being on top, despite the number of changes made from top to bottom in the last 4 months.
So if you then sack him and hire a new man, a man with a record only existing in the 2nd tier of another country, how long does that guy have with the fans? Say we lose our first couple of games with no progress made, how long before some start saying his appointment was the wrong call? Bear in mind the aim is still promotion, whoever comes in absolutely has to start earning those points just as quickly as Monk does right now. How many fans who currently have their twitchy fingers on the trigger reload their gun and go again? How long before the boos ring out again? I guarantee you that man won't even have as long as Monk does before some fans start calling for his head. And when he has no significant track record to fall back on, what defence does he have?
If you sack Monk at this stage of the season, the only change that makes sense is someone being brought in to make an immediate impact. Will those managers Billy mentioned do that? They don't fill me with confidence as I don't even know who they are. How many of our fans will? And how long before that lack of a name in the game comes back to bite them from the stands?
If Gibson decides that Monk is not up to it he needs to decide who is the best man for the job and go with it. Whether that's Allardyce, a young Spanish manager or whoever, it just needs to be the best man available regardless of where he's coming from. It shouldn't be a consideration about whether he might lose a few games because that's just negative thinking.
Some people seem frightened of changing managers which I don't understand, if we are appointing someone else it has to be with the belief that's it's a manager who's capable of turning us round.
If you think Monk is the man fine keep him. If you don't then replace him, just don't sit there doing nothing because you are frightened of what might happen.
Boro v Bournemouth (A) (League Cup) 1-3 (Tavernier)
in Match Day Threads 2017/18 Season
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Monk is lucky we are away the next two games, the pressure at Reading will be nothing compared to Sunderland at home.