Jump to content
oneBoro Forum


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by wilsoncgp

  1. Indeed, Coulson and Spence didn't struggle against Luton, Coulson was actually having somewhat of a positive effect at times, the only individual who made a positive contribution on the game. Spence wasn't great but he didn't do anything wrong, it's no surprise that he had less of an effect on the game when the two players closest to him on his side were the two worst players on the pitch; Howson and McNair.

  2. Just now, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

    I completely see your point but it's clear as day to everyone who watches us that certain tactics simply don't work for us, yet he has gone back to them for arguably our 3 most important games of the season and we have got 1 point and been dragged back into it.

    It's either naivety or incompetence but there is a fairly solid evidence to the argument that he has only ever got a winning side when he was forced into certain tactics/line up choices.

    Doesn't he have the worst record of any permanent manager at the club now? From a side that finishes 7th and has hardly been decimated. He has to go for me

    I'm not discounting those points mate, again, I'm saying he can't win when people who criticise him for not changing will just as easily criticise him for changing. As CT says, he's never gonna win fans over unless he wins games on the pitch.

  3. 11 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

    He could win on the tactics front by winning on the pitch, I would have thought that part was obvious?  We aren't winning on the pitch and the changes he chooses to make, not forced changes, don't seem to give us any improvement.  That's entirely down to him and he can be judged fairly on that without any mitigation.

    If you believe the loss of Roberts has really hit us hard then I'm not sure exactly what that says about us or about your thinking on this.  Roberts has played in 4 games for us this season and we didn't win any of them but his loss has really hit us hard?  I'd like him to be available as well but I'm struggling to use him as an excuse for the season as a whole or even the season since he signed here on loan.  He looks a good player, no question, but he's not good enough to mask the rest of our problems.  Finally, Woodgate isn't being careful with his recovery.  He'll be back playing as soon as he's fit and able to, the same as every other player.  Friend had played two games this season for us, then after a reserve game and a friendly he was back in the starting line up.

    I was commenting on the fact someone has said he's not stuck to his guns with a 4-3-3 throughout the season when plenty of people were also very early on criticising him for not changing from it. That's where I'm saying he can't win.

    Roberts came in early, we got it tied up ASAP, it's clear he was a significant part of our plans for the rest of this season and his performances on the pitch showed that. No, his absence doesn't excuse the rest of the team or the tactics but it has hit our plans hard clearly, we don't have another player like him at the club and haven't had one like that since Ramirez left.

    I've no idea why you think he isn't being careful with Roberts just because Friend forced himself back quickly at a time when we were desperate for players. Friend got himself injured again and said himself in his post-match interview against Luton that he held some responsibility for declaring himself fit. It's not like Friend came back as soon as he was fit to play again recently, nor Shotton. They were in U23 games for a week or so before they were declared fit for the first team. Friend went back into the team against Luton but then Fry had to drop out too so it was gonna be him, Shotton or McNair.

  4. 6 minutes ago, White Band said:

    Why would Shotton suddenly do a second interview which provided different information to the first, unless he had been told to do so by the club?

    Edit: his post match interview was very honest. The one in the Gazette has the appearance of ideas having been crafted by the club. Hence it is not surprising if people view it as propaganda. 

    'Suddenly do a second interview'? Mate, the Gazette does separate interviews to BBC Tees, they ask different questions and BBC Tees don't have to report it, they're separate entities.

    I know people don't trust the club at the moment but this is really in tin-foil hat territory.

  5. 14 minutes ago, White Band said:

    I blame the club. What the Gazette has written is rather different to what Shotton said straight after the match. Either the Gazette are seriously misrepresenting what Shotton said, or both he and the Gazette have been told what to say afterwards by the club. I believe the latter is more likely.

    Or the interview in the Gazette is not the interview with BBC Tees...

  6. 2 minutes ago, ManBearPig said:

    100% not on the interview that was with bbc tees sport. 

    Yet again, how stupid do they think we are. In an age of digital information and instant access, I find it insulting that they would pump out this *** propaganda and think it's going to change people's opinions.

    If woodgate is the best manager that he has worked with, how the *** has he won 8 games all season?? Its an absolute joke, honestly. 

    I'd rather they say, hes learning and is getting things moving in the right direction. 

    Shottons managers that hes played under..

    Pulis (first FA cup final, promotion, 

    Rowett - got them to 6th. Lost to Fulham in the second leg of the play offs. 

    Zola and Redknapp - pretty poor season. 19th place in the league. 

    Monk, Pulis and Woodgate at Boro. Again nothing special. But MILES better than current. 

    P r o p a g a n d a

    Wait, who are you blaming for propaganda, Shotton or the Gazette?

  7. Woodgate can't win on the tactics front. He was forced to change from his preferred style when injuries and results hit us hard at the early point in the season. We shored up a leaky defence and gradually started playing better towards the end of last year, the Hull game in particular was one game which, prior to Johnson's sending off, was much better than we'd played prior to that, it was the beginning of a turnaround in form and results. Charlton at home was incredibly only a 1-goal win but things got worse as Britt went off injured and young Walker couldn't wrap it up. We got a couple of important wins, then a couple of really good wins and then we hit the New Year.

    Players only recently started coming back into the side in the last month as we brought new boys in and Woodgate was determined to go back to his preferred style, but he has only just recently had the chance to do that, when we started looking safer. Don't get me wrong, the last 3 have been dreadfully managed and the team look void of motivation and guts, the subs have been dreadful in terms of changing tact. But I'm not gonna call Woodgate out on not sticking with his 4-3-3 all the way through. Everybody wanted him to change it back then and now want to criticise him for not sticking to his guns the whole way through when it wasn't working and we weren't winning. Everyone felt getting a couple of wins on board was important (we had only 1 at that point) and during that time, his options became more limited and we were stuck in a formation he was getting more out of but ultimately wasn't one he wanted to play.

    I think the loss of Roberts has really hit us too. He's the kind of player we need if we're gonna go back to 4-3-3 and be effective. The sooner we get him back, the better it should be for us. Unsurprisingly, Woodgate is being careful with his recovery so as to avoid any further injury.

  8. I can't tell whether it's interesting or utterly empty to hear Shotton say Woodgate is 'the best manager he's ever worked with'. Obviously he's never gonna throw him under a bus but that shows some lack of character to so fundamentally lie like that for the sake of a few people thinking he might actually be alright. That is if he is lying.

  9. 14 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

    It is weird that there are people who still don't get this.  Karanka managed to fall out with everyone.  Bloody hell, he fell out with Leo didn't he and he was the one who brought him here in the first place.

    People don't care, they don't want to get that, it's the most successful we've been in over 10 years of football, people don't forget that and will happily forget the reasons he left the worse we get.

  10. 5 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

    A project evolves from a business plan, not beliefs. A business plan involves milestones to gage progress against expectation and forecasting. What you are stating is SG planned to fail which I don’t believe.  Woody is the project Manager, no one else, he MUST be held accountable. 

    No, he didn't plan to fail, his plan failed. The result of his failed plan is Woodgate being in charge of our football club and a new plan with him at the helm, a plan which many here seem to agree was destined to fail.

    Woodgate isn't the 'project manager' at all. He picks the team, he decides the tactics, he does not decide how to run this football club.

  11. There's something incredibly Pulis about the senior vs. young players thing, it has to be said. The comments he made seemed like he was either blaming young players for the position we're in or blaming himself for playing them. They're one of the biggest positives about the season and either way you take his comments is not good.

    • Like 1

  12. 17 minutes ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

    Senior players being called out by their younger team mates. Cant say anymore than that 

    And then the seniors play and do sod all. Class.

    I can't wait to see the line up on Wednesday. Might change my prediction based on what it is.

  13. 55 minutes ago, TAPOUT said:

    Of course, that could happen wilson, this is football. Every managerial appointment is a massive gamble, with most failing to live up to the aspirations of the chairman and fans. That is just the way it is. I have suggested Warnock until the end of the season as I think he would buy us time. If we went for him and offered him a 2 and a half year contract I would be dead against it as it just  perpetuates a system that does not suit what was supposed to be a brave new era. If we accept we are a club that is going to pick up a rough diamond and develop them and potentially Integrate them into a successful side then we need a head coach that can coach. Someone who knows how he wants to play and coaches them to be better, not send them back to their past clubs to let them improve them. This is especially relevant given the rebuild required in the summer. Woodgate has demonstrated that he does not have the focus or ability to coach a player to be better and if things aren’t working his option is to tear it up. Can you imagine him bringing in 7 players in the summer, giving them long term contracts, not knowing how he is going to set the team up. It literally fills me with dread.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about though. People will throw the baby out with the bathwater to sack a manager. There are situations which fans absolutely want to avoid in the aftermath of sacking a manager but are still full pelt towards it like that will never happen. It's happened with Karanka, it's happened with Pulis, arguably it happened with Monk too as people started to switch off as soon as Pulis came in. It baffles me beyond belief that people think it will work with sacking Woodgate. People argue about it like it's a logical decision but it isn't, it's a decision based on the belief or hope that things will get better when he's gone and it's really not that simple. Every time someone sacks a manager it is out of belief that things couldn't get any worse and yet they continue to get worse.

    It's like when people start going on about bringing in a promising foreign coach. What about our recent past makes anyone think we're about to do that? We had success with one and the club did everything they could to erase him and everything to do with him from the club as soon as it went wrong. It's all perceived as simple though, we just need to get a promising coach, we just need Warnock til the end of the season, we just need to do this or that. Oh ***, we didn't do any of those things, we hired Woodgate, how dreadful a decision that was by the club and now I'm gonna complain about how *** Woodgate is until he's gone. The manager continues to take the brunt of the criticism year on year whilst the club sits back and makes *** decisions one after the other.

    We need to be more nuanced than thinking sacking a manager solves your problems or we won't just be stuck in League One. But this is the culture of football; things go wrong, sack the manager, things go wrong again, sack them again. It doesn't work.

    • Like 2

  14. If we replace with someone like Warnock, I can see us becoming the Championship equivalent of Sunderland in the Prem. Scraping out of relegation and then being *** the next season, cue replace, rinse, repeat for 4 years until we eventually get relegated to League One. Netflix give us a special and we get relegated to League Two with Robbie Stockdale providing the mid-season filler content. League Two play-off final ends in despair as Richie Smallwood fails on his return to provide the positive captain's impact we hoped.

    I'm over-dramatising of course but I can't see any significant positive impact until Gibson actually changes tact.

  15. 1 hour ago, Duvel said:

    I think those people are in the minority, I barely read any comments online or speak to people who think that Gibson isn't part of the problem. 

    Just because our chairman is incompetent that isn't justification for sticking with a failing manager. 

    My point is that I feel sticking or twisting will cause very little change in the long run so why bother wasting the money. If we're gonna fall, we're gonna fall regardless of who comes in. As above re: United, the manager isn't the problem and there are very few managers we can bring in who will be able to work in a broken system and provide anything positive.

    Sacking Woodgate isn't a positive move in and of itself and I can't support it because what we can see right now is bad, I need something more concretely positive in what comes after to support it and I sincerely doubt that will happen unless an ITK comes on and tells us who's next in line if Woodgate goes. You said yourself if Woodgate goes it could be Friend or Hignett, is that a positive move? A captain with less experience in coaching than Woodgate or a twice failed National League manager?

  16. 13 minutes ago, White Band said:

    I think quite a few people on here have been pointing a finger at Gibson. However, the God-like status Gibson holds in many people's eyes can make it difficult to ask questions about him or scrutinise how he is doing in his role because it attracts such hostility.

    They have mate, I acknowledged that in my post. It isn't as big a problem on this forum as it is off it. But it is also sometimes unfairly weighted on Woodgate, I think.

    17 minutes ago, White Band said:

    Also, his model of running a club has got very out of touch with the modern game. He has not kept up to date and developed as the game has changed. It was very obvious when we got promoted just how out of touch he was, as he tried to use strategies which would have been okay when we had last been there, but were totally inappropriate for was was needed in the new situation. 

    Aye, you can see a bigger example of this at United too. The Glazers and Woodward together have no idea how to run a modern football club. They still think they can throw big money at players to solve their problems. Paul Pogba, £89m, yeah go on then. Do you know how you'll use him? Not really, he's good though innit? Angel Di Maria, Romelu Lukaku, Alexis Sanchez, great players go there and if the manager doesn't get the pelters, the players do. Incredibly, United after Mourinho announced they would change tact, get a DoF in and hire a proven manager to be supported by them. Then they sack off the DoF and hire Solksjaer 'cause he had a good run of games.

    • Like 1

  17. 16 hours ago, Changing Times said:

    If I understand this twitter malarky, it's just a broken link to this article (not story):


    Decent article by Vickers, that. Shows a firey side. That comment by Lewis Wing saying he had these 3 games down as 9 points is pathetic and completely at odds with Woodgate's "Every game is a tough game" conclusion. You have to wonder whether it is just Woodgate or if there are some who are just as blase as I am about it. 😬

    17 hours ago, BoroJake said:

    Throwing the young lads under the bus... Lovely

    Yeah, this really doesn't read well either. If he looked at the Luton game and thought the one thing he needed was his experienced players then he's daft. Coulson was the only one who actually had an okay game. Spence didn't have a great game against Luton but leaving him out of the squad because he thought Howson, the 2nd worst performer against Luton, would do the job better is pathetic.

    • Like 1

  18. I still wouldn't sack him, I've genuinely no confidence he'll be replaced with anyone better and if that's not going to happen then I see little justification in getting rid.

    But I can't say I'd be shocked in terms of his performance if he was, either. 1 point from 9 in 3 consecutive games against the bottom 3 is some level of shittery. I'd be disappointed as I wanted it to work out for him but that's football.

    I still think some people need to re-direct their abuse a bit though. People royally going in on Woodgate whilst the man who lead the club to the brink of requiring him to be the manager is rarely mentioned by some. It's much less frequent on here I will say but I've mentioned before, over every radio phone-in I've heard where the 'Woodgate out' brigade comes on, I've heard one person suggest Gibson might be out of his depth (beyond the idea of keeping Woodgate in charge).

    Just remember that Woodgate is a fall guy. I'm not gonna say it was inevitable that he'd fail but I completely understand why some would say that. In that scenario where he is an inevitable failure, why is he getting the pelters and not the man who put him in charge? Even if you take it that it was a decision made with financial incentives of cutting the wage bill down (vs. other options), you have to acknowledge why we needed to do that. There are far too many Boro fans out there who think Woodgate is the problem and that by getting rid of him, you solve the problem.

    • Like 2

  19. It's not the club's responsibility, he's his own person and should be dealing with it on his own. Which is why the idea of them being even remotely involved in any 'cover up' is disgusting if true.

    Also I know that some think hey, police investigation required before judgements can be made. It's a stellar attitude, innocent until proven guilty. And I'd absolutely love to be able to agree. However, I'd ask you if you've ever known anyone who's tried to report domestic abuse to the police before. Spoiler alert; it's not as simple as they did something wrong and thus go to jail. I've heard enough situations even just in the last 6 months where the guilty walk free because what proof is there? The word of the victim.

    So by all means, stand up for Randolph's rights to not be judged unless found guilty. But just because the police decide not to pursue, don't throw her under a bus. It's not been proven to have happened, which is very different from having been proven not to have happened. Imagine having to live with your abuser walking free and dial it back.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  20. 4 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

    Because you seemed to be suggesting that our worsening performances wouldn't lead to a more negative outlook from him, which doesn't make any sense unless he's simply trying to find positives out of every situation.  His job isn't to be negative or positive, it's to reflect on what is seen on the pitch.  If it's bad then he needs to say it's bad otherwise he isn't doing his job properly.  It's bad at the moment and has been for most of the season so talking things up would be him not doing his job properly.  Then the question would be is that because he's just bad at the job or is it because he's employed by the club and doesn't want to be critical if he can help it.  I rarely if ever listen to the radio so whatever he says makes no difference to me in that sense.

    His job is to give his opinion from a professional's perspective, to summarise the game. It's not like he's sat there saying "What a great performance" afterwards either, which perhaps you would know if you were listening to it. I don't quite know why you're being so tin-foil hat about it without the actual experience of listening to him very often other than to simply question something for the sake of it right now. I'm gonna leave it at that as this would appear to be an utterly pointless discussion all things considered.

  21. 1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

    Because maybe it was less about his 'style' and more about the fact that we were a better team and hence there were actual positives to speak about?  There aren't any at the moment.   It's also not his job to find positives in every situation anyway.

    What the sodding hell does that have to do with the way he views things? It's not his job to be negative either. 😄

    He's commenting on football the way he sees it. Do you genuinely think he's making up positivity because he works for the club? Or do you just want him to tell it closer to the way you see it to give him any credit?

  • Create New...