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Candidates for our next manager...

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Keeping Warnock means we've once again changed our minds on the process of creating a positive footballing identity, unless he's another stop-gap and there to do nothing but try to keep us up again.

The appointment makes sense when we're scrapping at the bottom and need wins. I don't personally see how Warnock takes us up with our resources or how he is a suitable long-term appointment, so if we're in any way a better position financially this summer, why not make the right appointment for what is supposedly our long term goal now.

He's not gonna come into this summer and not spend our money, he'll do exactly like any other manager would and spend what we've got available. Is another season of spending money to build a robust, direct style of football what we want here, especially when Warnock inevitably leaves after?

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I'd be quite happy to give Warnock the season and transfer windows, even if he just brings in some solid pros and we have a middle of the road season that's fine with me.

The squad needs gutting and there's a lot of players leaving so maybe a season of having a decent manager who can build a good base for the next manager to build off rather than having them try to do it with a rag tag squad, similar to the Mogga and Venus(?) Era just before Karanka took over.

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Revolutionary thought, but we could go for a young manager that is not totally inexperienced! It has been either dinosaurs or newbies under Gibson because he won’t “poach” another club’s manager. Dinosaurs tend to play negative football, e.g. Pulis, and get hate from the fans. The newbies have generally been awful at recruitment (Karanka the exception - but we had a DoF). If the next man’s job is to rebuild a passable championship side then a little experience or/and a DoF is a must have. Equally if the manager won’t commit to 3 years then they are not committed to a full rebuild so not suitable

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Gibson took a huge risk last summer to get to this point. I’m sure when Woodgate was appointed, one of the ITK posters on here said success would be finishing 4th from bottom and getting the wage bill down and players moved on. Warnock might be able to get us out of the bottom 3 - if so, we’re where Gibson wants us to be. 
 

So big decision next. Does he trust a new manager, with or without experience to build a team long term. Or another short term fix? 

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1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

Keeping Warnock means we've once again changed our minds on the process of creating a positive footballing identity, unless he's another stop-gap and there to do nothing but try to keep us up again.

The appointment makes sense when we're scrapping at the bottom and need wins. I don't personally see how Warnock takes us up with our resources or how he is a suitable long-term appointment, so if we're in any way a better position financially this summer, why not make the right appointment for what is supposedly our long term goal now.

He's not gonna come into this summer and not spend our money, he'll do exactly like any other manager would and spend what we've got available. Is another season of spending money to build a robust, direct style of football what we want here, especially when Warnock inevitably leaves after?

Come on though, we never really had a "process of creating a positive footballing identity", we had some talk about a "golden thread" and then instead we hired Woodgate and his merry band of inexperienced coaches, signed up three league one players who were eventually sacked off on loan, had about three games where we played this high press attacking stuff that was talked about before we dissembled to random team selections and tactics and sank into the relegation zone.  

So long as we're not actually making any substantive changes to how the club is run (hire a DoF, get in a manager who actually fits this identity, sort out the scouting, actually look to Europe for players, etc) then it's all just a PR exercise to talk about an "identity".

Warnock took Cardiff from relegation zone to promotion, rebuilt the team, didn't spend a fortune doing so, etc. I could understand Gibson deciding on giving him a year.

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I'm firmly in the "no" to warnock camp. 

Look at every successful club in the country. Not one of them plays defensive football anymore - gone are your defensive arsenals and Mourinho park the bus style teams. Look at the teams that have been promoted from the championship in recent years- nearly all of them are doing it with an attacking and progressive style. Throughout Europe it's the same- you dont get defensive Italian teams winning the champions league anymore. 

Warnock and pulis's style of football has gone out of fashion because it rarely works anymore. Of course there are a few exceptions, but generally speaking, positive football gets success in 2020. If we appoint warnock, were dooming ourselves to whatever length of time of more negative football and just giving the next manager the same crappy job that woodgate got in trying to turn it around. 

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4 minutes ago, macapes said:

Come on though, we never really had a "process of creating a positive footballing identity", we had some talk about a "golden thread" and then instead we hired Woodgate and his merry band of inexperienced coaches, signed up three league one players who were eventually sacked off on loan, had about three games where we played this high press attacking stuff that was talked about before we dissembled to random team selections and tactics and sank into the relegation zone.  

So long as we're not actually making any substantive changes to how the club is run (hire a DoF, get in a manager who actually fits this identity, sort out the scouting, actually look to Europe for players, etc) then it's all just a PR exercise to talk about an "identity".

Warnock took Cardiff from relegation zone to promotion, rebuilt the team, didn't spend a fortune doing so, etc. I could understand Gibson deciding on giving him a year.

When you make this big announcement about driving a big, positive change in the footballing direction of your club, you don't just give up after one bad hire. Or, at least, you shouldn't. If Gibson really wants to deliver on that promise then Warnock is not the right man for the job.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it was all a massive PR exercise to generate positivity and it worked to some extent. I just wish they'd follow through on it, I'd have a whole lot more respect for Gibson if he stuck to his guns on the positive messages he puts out. After all, the message resonated with people because that's what the people actually wanted. It wasn't necessarily what I even wanted but it was the feeling of collective positivity that made me feel a bit differently about it.

If Gibson is just going to chop and change until he finds what delivers success, he should come out and deliver that message and be honest with fans. Optimistic, I know.

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11 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Look at the teams that have been promoted from the championship in recent years- nearly all of them are doing it with an attacking and progressive style.

Cardiff, Huddersfield and Middlesbrough have all been promoted in recent years without playing attacking and progressive football.

Huddersfield were outright awful going forwards and went up with a negative goal difference.

Not sure I'd have described Burnley as attacking and progressive, even though they scored a decent amount of goals to get promoted, they're definitely not now.

Even this season, Forest could go up and they're basically the definition of a 1 chance, 1 goal win side.

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11 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I'm firmly in the "no" to warnock camp. 

Look at every successful club in the country. Not one of them plays defensive football anymore - gone are your defensive arsenals and Mourinho park the bus style teams. Look at the teams that have been promoted from the championship in recent years- nearly all of them are doing it with an attacking and progressive style. Throughout Europe it's the same- you dont get defensive Italian teams winning the champions league anymore. 

Warnock and pulis's style of football has gone out of fashion because it rarely works anymore. Of course there are a few exceptions, but generally speaking, positive football gets success in 2020. If we appoint warnock, were dooming ourselves to whatever length of time of more negative football and just giving the next manager the same crappy job that woodgate got in trying to turn it around. 

I agree with all of this, with one addition - Pulis-ball worked at the lower ends of the Premier League, keeping teams up by scraping 40-45 points each year. But is it worth it?  It's not really entertainment. It doesn't work in the Championship when you need to outscore your opponents - the Villa semi illustrated that perfectly.

If Nigel Pearson was available, I think he would be perfect for us.  His Championship teams played attacking football, and the fans still hold him in high regard from his time as captain here.

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8 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Cardiff, Huddersfield and Middlesbrough have all been promoted in recent years without playing attacking and progressive football.

Huddersfield were outright awful going forwards and went up with a negative goal difference.

Not sure I'd have described Burnley as attacking and progressive, even though they scored a decent amount of goals to get promoted, they're definitely not now.

Even this season, Forest could go up and they're basically the definition of a 1 chance, 1 goal win side.

How did they all do in the premier league? Straight back down. And produced one of the worse seasons in living memory with our premier league year. Surely we need to learn our lessons at some point?

Burnley are the one exception I has in mind across the whole of europe. Edit - argument can be made for athletico Madrid too, but they havent really done as much as they potentially should have with their resources. 

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Huddersfield stayed up.

Cardiff were unlucky not to stay up, robbed by the linesman against Chelsea and had a striker killed.

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4 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Huddersfield stayed up.

Cardiff were unlucky not to stay up, robbed by the linesman against Chelsea and had a striker killed.

The point is they're all back in the championship now. Whereas the likes of Bournemouth, Watford, wolves, sheff utd, Leicester, Southampton, Brighton have all tried to play football and had longer stints in the top flight with a few of them achieving amazing things.

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4 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

The point is they're all back in the championship now. Whereas the likes of Bournemouth, Watford, wolves, sheff utd, Leicester, Southampton, Brighton have all tried to play football and had longer stints in the top flight with a few of them achieving amazing things.

Your point was nearly all teams were promoted playing attacking football, mine was that it's not true.

Given we're nowhere near the Premier League right now, I'm not bothered about a hypothetical situation about us struggling to stay up after promotion.

Warnock can get teams promoted in the modern era, we can worry about staying promoted later. 

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3 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Your point was nearly all teams were promoted playing attacking football, mine was that it's not true.

Given we're nowhere near the Premier League right now, I'm not bothered about a hypothetical situation about us struggling to stay up after promotion.

Warnock can get teams promoted in the modern era, we can worry about staying promoted later. 

My overall point was that defensive football doesnt bring success anymore. You named 3 clubs out of how many that achieved short term success out of how many? And none of them maintained that success. I said "nearly all" in my initial post and I stand by that. 

And as for your last point - that's exactly the attitude we took last time. You really want the club to make the same mistake again and end up back here a few years down the line?

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53 minutes ago, Tobermory Whitby said:

I agree with all of this, with one addition - Pulis-ball worked at the lower ends of the Premier League, keeping teams up by scraping 40-45 points each year. But is it worth it?  It's not really entertainment. It doesn't work in the Championship when you need to outscore your opponents - the Villa semi illustrated that perfectly.

If Nigel Pearson was available, I think he would be perfect for us.  His Championship teams played attacking football, and the fans still hold him in high regard from his time as captain here.

Follow Pulis into a club as manager is a tough task. He has a habit of wrecking a club, whilst claiming he's sorting everything out. Look at West brom and Stoke. They're still trying to sort out Stoke numerous managers later. That's why woody was always on a hiding to nothing. Either Warnock or Pearson would be fine going forward. One is available the other isn't.

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