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The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 aka TURN DOWN FOR WHAT(more)

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1 minute ago, Uwe said:

image.gif.b02f2f6b45688446e610de063173ad86.gif

 

How does Monk keep getting jobs? He’s a fricken Charlton with a moral compass as crooked As a barrel of fishhooks


 

autocorrect strikes again!

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Just now, TLF10 said:

Where does it say Warnock is back at work today?

Gibson said everyone will take 2 weeks off and from that I assumed no one is officially reporting back until Monday 17th August which is date i expect pre season to resume.

Work will obviously be going on in  background but dont think Warnock back at his desk today so to speak 

FWIW I believe Warnock to be back today.

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10 minutes ago, Brunners said:

FWIW I believe Warnock to be back today.

Yeah I'd sort of expect that too. He only had the job for less than 2 months, so I doubt that he really needs a break and this is the time when the window starts to heat up and he needs to get some of the groundwork done before he hits the training fields with the players.

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12 minutes ago, Brunners said:

autocorrect strikes again!

Goddamit. I ducking hate it when that happens 🤦‍♂️

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On the Wing topic; I am a huge fan of Lewis Wing and I think if utilised correctly, he can be a very good player. Problem is, he's not a Warnock player. IMO, to be effective he really wants to be playing as a 10 with very little defensive responsibilities. 

I think if you put him in a Karanka 4231 with the two defensively sound midfielders behind him and give him the freedom to float around and drive at defences and things like that you will start to see the best of him again. 

He's clearly a talented player, he just runs like he's stuck in treacle and can't tackle his way out of a wet paper bag, so is never going to fit into a Warnock team.

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4 minutes ago, Brunners said:

On the Wing topic; I am a huge fan of Lewis Wing and I think if utilised correctly, he can be a very good player. Problem is, he's not a Warnock player. IMO, to be effective he really wants to be playing as a 10 with very little defensive responsibilities. 

I think if you put him in a Karanka 4231 with the two defensively sound midfielders behind him and give him the freedom to float around and drive at defences and things like that you will start to see the best of him again. 

He's clearly a talented player, he just runs like he's stuck in treacle and can't tackle his way out of a wet paper bag, so is never going to fit into a Warnock team.

He's got parts to his game where you can tell he's been in non league for most of career and he should really have developed by now, being 25. His passing game/ball retention is really poor generally - he gives the ball away a lot and panics when in possession - not what you want from your number 10. I don't know if warnock can coach that out of him, but he's never going to be a consistently effective player until he figures it out.

For now, he's in the tarmo kink/maloury Martin category, no more and no less.

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8 minutes ago, Brunners said:

On the Wing topic; I am a huge fan of Lewis Wing and I think if utilised correctly, he can be a very good player. Problem is, he's not a Warnock player. IMO, to be effective he really wants to be playing as a 10 with very little defensive responsibilities. 

I think if you put him in a Karanka 4231 with the two defensively sound midfielders behind him and give him the freedom to float around and drive at defences and things like that you will start to see the best of him again. 

He's clearly a talented player, he just runs like he's stuck in treacle and can't tackle his way out of a wet paper bag, so is never going to fit into a Warnock team.

I don't think he is technically good enough to play as a number 10. Has a good shot and scores screamers but all too often misplaces his pass, can't take a man on and isn't particularly quick. Like NB4 says he is more in the Malaury Martin club and I think he is at his peak so if we have decent offers I'd probably sell.

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16 hours ago, Changing Times said:

Haven't we already got one of those, that every bugger is apparently keeping an eye on?

Which one? Fry? Well I suspect Fry will be in the team or he needs better competition. Couple of young defenders battling each other for the spot might be a good thing, all I know for sure is we definitely need more centre-backs one way or another and if bringing a young lad from Wolves in increases our squad depth a bit for cheap, it helps that he's highly rated.

If you mean Wood, then he needs to go out on loan and have some guaranteed play-time, I think.

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9 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

He's got parts to his game where you can tell he's been in non league for most of career and he should really have developed by now, being 25. His passing game/ball retention is really poor generally - he gives the ball away a lot and panics when in possession - not what you want from your number 10. I don't know if warnock can coach that out of him, but he's never going to be a consistently effective player until he figures it out.

For now, he's in the tarmo kink/maloury Martin category, no more and no less.

Stats absolutely do not bear this out. He averages 1 bad control per game & his passing game is right around the same as all our other midfielders, around the 75% mark. He averages basically the same key passes per game as both Tavernier & McNair (1). 

He tries the more expansive passing which is why it sometimes looks terrible, because when he misplaces them he really misplaces them. He averages 2.4 long balls per game, only bettered by Jonny Howson at 2.9, but then Howson tries a lot more of them.

Passing stats for our main midfielders:

Wing: 

32.2 passes per game
2.4 accurate long balls
2.8 inaccurate long balls
21.9 accurate short passes
5.2 inaccurate short passes
1 Key Pass
75.4 Pass Success %

Howson

40.2 passes per game
2.9 accurate long balls
5.9 inaccurate long balls
25.6 accurate short passes
5.8 inaccurate short passes
0.8 Key Pass
70.9 Pass Success %

McNair

31.8 passes per game
1.6 accurate long balls
2.5 inaccurate long balls
23.1 accurate short passes
4.6 inaccurate short passes
1.2 Key Pass
77.7 Pass Success %

Tavernier

24.1 passes per game
0.7 accurate long balls
0.9 inaccurate long balls
17.7 accurate short passes
4.7 inaccurate short passes
1.1 Key Pass
76.7 Pass Success %

Saville

26.2 passes per game
1.1 accurate long balls
1.8 inaccurate long balls
19.3 accurate short passes
4 inaccurate short passes
0.6 Key Pass
77.8 Pass Success %

Wings passing is no worse than any of our other midfield options.

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What those stats don't do is take into account the simplicity of passes. I think the biggest complaint about wing, particularly since the restart has been he misplaced the most simple of passes on a fairly regular basis. There was a game he came on and he pretty much constantly passed the ball right to the opposition from about 5 yards. It was 5 a side stuff.

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3 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Stats absolutely do not bear this out. He averages 1 bad control per game & his passing game is right around the same as all our other midfielders, around the 75% mark. He averages basically the same key passes per game as both Tavernier & McNair (1). 

He tries the more expansive passing which is why it sometimes looks terrible, because when he misplaces them he really misplaces them. He averages 2.4 long balls per game, only bettered by Jonny Howson at 2.9, but then Howson tries a lot more of them.

Passing stats for our main midfielders:

Wing: 

32.2 passes per game
2.4 accurate long balls
2.8 inaccurate long balls
21.9 accurate short passes
5.2 inaccurate short passes
1 Key Pass
75.4 Pass Success %

Howson

40.2 passes per game
2.9 accurate long balls
5.9 inaccurate long balls
25.6 accurate short passes
5.8 inaccurate short passes
0.8 Key Pass
70.9 Pass Success %

McNair

31.8 passes per game
1.6 accurate long balls
2.5 inaccurate long balls
23.1 accurate short passes
4.6 inaccurate short passes
1.2 Key Pass
77.7 Pass Success %

Tavernier

24.1 passes per game
0.7 accurate long balls
0.9 inaccurate long balls
17.7 accurate short passes
4.7 inaccurate short passes
1.1 Key Pass
76.7 Pass Success %

Saville

26.2 passes per game
1.1 accurate long balls
1.8 inaccurate long balls
19.3 accurate short passes
4 inaccurate short passes
0.6 Key Pass
77.8 Pass Success %

Wings passing is no worse than any of our other midfield options.

I think part of Wings issue is he looks massively burnt out at the moment, both at the end of the season before lockdown and then after lockdown which fans have jumped on and made out like he was always that poor.

Don't get me wrong he's not a world beater but before then he had a good engine, got around the pitch and had a goal in him. 

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1 hour ago, Neverbefore said:

I'm really glad that it's not just me that hasn't seen this improvement that people keep talking about. I thought he played OK in a couple of games in the restart but was truly shocking in some of the other games - qpr, Bristol and Cardiff he was the worst player on the pitch I thought (marvin maybe pipping him at the post in one or two). His limit seems to be "alright". Id prefer someone who has a higher ceiling and I think mcnair, howson and even wing all have higher ceilings with similar floors. Saville would be the first out the door of that bunch for me.

While I appreciate your opinion, he wasn't great in any of the 3 games you mentioned, but calling him the worst played on the pitch is harsh IMO. Using whoscored ratings as a guide (not perfect I know, but it gives a consistent rating) he was the worst rated player on the pitch in 1 of the 3 games you mentioned, and that was a joint award.

Against Cardiff, Howson & Pears both rated lower.

Against QPR, Howson rated the same

Against Bristol City, Stojanovic, Johnson, Fry, Spence, Howson & McNair all rated lower than Saville.

He isn't pleasing on the eye in games, but he's been quietly effective at what Warnock has asked him to do, by and large.

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Also don't understand why he's trying so many more long balls than the rest of our midfield (howson doesn't count because he spent a large chunk of the season in defence and was clearly instructed to smash the ball into the channels when he got it)? For someone who's supposed to be playing in a more advanced position surely he shouldn't be resorting to long balls as often as he does? To me it suggests a lack of imagination or guile. 

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3 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

What those stats don't do is take into account the simplicity of passes. I think the biggest complaint about wing, particularly since the restart has been he misplaced the most simple of passes on a fairly regular basis. There was a game he came on and he pretty much constantly passed the ball right to the opposition from about 5 yards. It was 5 a side stuff.

Again, he doesn't average anymore misplace short passes than literally any of our other midfielders really so to use that as a stick to beat him with is absurd.

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1 minute ago, Neverbefore said:

Also don't understand why he's trying so many more long balls than the rest of our midfield (howson doesn't count because he spent a large chunk of the season in defence and was clearly instructed to smash the ball into the channels when he got it)? For someone who's supposed to be playing in a more advanced position surely he shouldn't be resorting to long balls as often as he does? To me it suggests a lack of imagination or guile. 

If I had to hazard a guess (and it is only a guess) I think either management thought he had the best passing range, or he was confident in his own passing range, to try the cross field diagonal balls that often times unlock defences. 

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