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The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 aka TURN DOWN FOR WHAT(more)

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6 minutes ago, TheHolgate said:

The 2016 and 2017 summer window were just huge f ups that the club is no where near recovering them.

 

Over 2 summer windows we destroyed the Karanka promotion team. Whoever decided to bring in the likes of Bernardo, Valdes, Barragan, Fischer etc. Should hang their heads in shame.

I dont think any of those are particularly bad signings to be honest. 

Bernardo had played 50 odd games at the top level in Spain and was a low risk free transfer whom we made a good profit on. 

Fischer had a reputation of being full of promise as a youngster. Had lost his way a little but again at a low cost was worth the risk on raw potential imo. Again, not very expensive and we didn't lose much on him.

Barragan spent pretty much his whole career before and after us in the top flight in Spain- again cost us a minimal amount. On paper another good signing. 

Valdes - his previous two clubs to us were united and Barcelona and he had won everhthing in football. On top of that he actually had a good season with us until he decided to pack his bags after karanka left. 

It was the January transfers that screwed us. You mention about dismantling the promotion side - this probably was done too quickly but friend, clayton, ayala, leadbitter- they were all caught out at premier league level. Only gibson and to a lesser extent Stuani showed anything when given the chance in he premier league, so in that sense we were rather forced to make so many signings. 

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1 hour ago, "KM" said:

Agree with you 100%. Years of mismanagement from Steve Gibson, Neil Bausor and the club as a whole have finally caught up to us. Neil Warnock is a short term fix although I think he could do well if he gets the players that he wants. But what’s going to happen when Warnock retires again for the 10th time at the end of the season. We’ll still be in this mess.  Really wish Steve Gibson would appoint a DoF. Appreciate we wouldn’t be where we are without him but the club needs to go into a new direction. 

Out of interest what is a DoF going to do when we can't attract players?

I do see your point long term mind but finding a decent DoF and building those contacts won't come quick

Edited by SzilardNemethsCurtains
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4 hours ago, TLF10 said:

Just been looking at the pre season photos released by the club.

Saw everyone present bar Dael Fry i think. And dont recall Thomas Meijas being present in any of the photos either. 

Leo was present which was good to see.

image.png.45a4adb8d7d8858d22c8e731a5954c90.png

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17 minutes ago, mendieta420 said:

Forest got some great freebies there. 

Ye, Forest and Millwall have had very good windows so far

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1 hour ago, ManBearPig said:

But we do struggle to attract players.
 

Says who and what is the evidence for this?  It's just people, like you, saying it without any justification as far as I can see.  This is a list of the players we've signed in the last 5 years.  First list is permanent transfers only, second is loan signings.

Baptiste, Downing, Stuani, Nugent, de Pena, Rhodes, de Sart, de Roon, Ramirez, Traore, Valdes, Guzan, Fischer, Barragan, Fabio, Espinosa, Gestede, Bamford, Guedioura, Assombalonga, Braithwaite, Fletcher, Howson, Randolph, Shotton, Christie, Johnson, Wing (Non League), Miller, Armstrong (Non league), Flint, Saville, McNair, Lonergan, Mikel, Dijksteel, Bola, Browne, Stojanovic, Mejias.

That's 40 permanent signings in 5 years.

Kike Sola, Amorebieta, Stephens, Ramirez, De Laet, Zuculini, Fabbrini, Agazzi, Chambers, Negredo, Roberts, Baker, Harrison, Besic, Cranie, Van La Parra, Batth, McQueen, Hugill, Roberts, Nmecha, Makoudi, Morrison.

That's 23 loan signings in 5 years.

So we've signed 62 players (Ramirez is in twice) total in 5 years with 40 of them being permanent.  As far as I can tell, the only players who come from this area are Downing, Wing, Armstrong and Hugill.  About half of them aren't even British.  And it's also worth considering that part of this period is when we were cutting costs and not splashing out much on new signings but we've still averaged 8 permanent signings per season and nearly 5 loan signings as well.  That's nearly 13 signings a year!  However, we can't attract players?  

Our issue hasn't been a failure to attract players.  Go through those lists and it's quite clear, to me at least, that our issue has been signing players who weren't up to it or players who were a poor fit for us.  This happened both with and without finances, whether the club was on the up or down and even when we were a Premier League club.  We didn't have to sign these players, they weren't the only options for us, we chose to sign them and in a lot of cases we messed up.  Some signings were ok, some not so good and some screwed us over (like Ramirez).  I just don't see an inability to attract players.  We clearly aren't going to compete with bigger clubs than us, Premier League clubs, clubs with greater resources etc, but that's par for the course.  Lyle Taylor didn't join Forest ahead of us because he's always wanted to live in Nottingham, they offered him the best deal and he took it.  Moore went to Cardiff for the Welsh reasons.  As for Hall coming here, it probably had something to do with Warnock, but I will say it's an absolute certainty that we offered him more money than QPR did so he chose the best contract.  Most footballers do at the end of the day, whatever reasons they give publicly for joining a club.

 

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21 minutes ago, sambaDTR said:

Cardiff In: Kieffer Moore (Wigan) 

Coventry In: Gustavo Hamer (PEC Zwolle)

Derby In: Mike te Wierik (FC Groningen)

Millwall In: Troy Parrott (Tottenham, loan)

Norwich In: Przemyslaw Placheta (Slask Wroclaw), Danel Sinani (F91 Dudelange), Sebastian Soto (Hannover 96), Matthew Dennis (Arsenal), Jacob Lungi Sörensen (Esbjerg fB), Kieran Dowell (Everton)

Nottingham Forest In: Lyle Taylor (Charlton)

QPR In: George Thomas (Leicester)

Reading In: Josh Laurent (Shrewsbury)

Rotherham In: Kieran Sadlier (Doncaster)

Sheffield Wednesday In: Chey Dunkley (Wigan), Fisayo Dele-Bashiru (Manchester City)

I'm curious to see how these players fare next season, seem to be some decent signings on paper and then just curious to see how some of the championship debutants do 

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12 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I dont think any of those are particularly bad signings to be honest. 

Bernardo had played 50 odd games at the top level in Spain and was a low risk free transfer whom we made a good profit on. 

Fischer had a reputation of being full of promise as a youngster. Had lost his way a little but again at a low cost was worth the risk on raw potential imo. Again, not very expensive and we didn't lose much on him.

Barragan spent pretty much his whole career before and after us in the top flight in Spain- again cost us a minimal amount. On paper another good signing. 

Valdes - his previous two clubs to us were united and Barcelona and he had won everhthing in football. On top of that he actually had a good season with us until he decided to pack his bags after karanka left. 

It was the January transfers that screwed us. You mention about dismantling the promotion side - this probably was done too quickly but friend, clayton, ayala, leadbitter- they were all caught out at premier league level. Only gibson and to a lesser extent Stuani showed anything when given the chance in he premier league, so in that sense we were rather forced to make so many signings. 

Come on, it clearly wasn't the January window that screwed us.  The players you mention there did next to nothing for us, so they were bad signings.  Their records elsewhere are irrelevant.  We made lots of signings in that summer that hardly contributed to us during the season, that was the problem.  Negredo, Chambers and de Roon aside, the rest may as well have not been here.  I'd add Ramirez to that list as well but then he shafted us from January onward.  The January transfer window was bad but the summer window was bad as well, and that's why we struggled.  The summer window is when you do most of your business, if you get that wrong then you're in trouble because January isn't the best time to make meaningful additions.

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25 minutes ago, sambaDTR said:

OK, slag off the area, slag of the scouting system, slag off Gibbo, but are we really that far behind other clubs in The Championship as far as buying players so far? Are there many on this list you would rather we have?

Barnsley In: None 

Birmingham In: George Friend (Middlesbrough) 

Blackburn In: None

Bournemouth In: None

Brentford In: None 

Bristol City In: None

Cardiff In: Kieffer Moore (Wigan) 

Coventry In: Gustavo Hamer (PEC Zwolle), Julien Da Costa (Chamois Niort), Callum O'Hare (Aston Villa), Marcel Hilßner (SC Paderborn), Ryan Giles (Wolves, loan)

Derby In: Mike te Wierik (FC Groningen), Henrich Ravas

Huddersfield In: None 

Luton In: Jordan Clark

Middlesbrough In: Grant Hall (QPR)

Millwall In: Troy Parrott (Tottenham, loan), Ryan Woods (Stoke, loan)

Norwich In: Przemyslaw Placheta (Slask Wroclaw), Bali Mumba (Sunderland), Danel Sinani (F91 Dudelange), Sebastian Soto (Hannover 96), Matthew Dennis (Arsenal), Jacob Lungi Sörensen (Esbjerg fB), Kieran Dowell (Everton)

Nottingham Forest In: Lyle Taylor (Charlton), Jack Colback (Newcastle) Tyler Blackett (Reading)

Preston In: None

QPR In: George Thomas (Leicester) , Luke Amos (Spurs)

Reading In: Josh Laurent (Shrewsbury)

Rotherham In: Mickel Miller (Hamilton), Kieran Sadlier (Doncaster), Angus MacDonald (Hull)

Sheffield Wednesday In: Chey Dunkley (Wigan), Fisayo Dele-Bashiru (Manchester City)

Stoke In: Morgan Fox (Sheffield Wednesday), James Chester (Aston Villa), Steven Fletcher (Sheffield Wednesday), Jon Obi Mikel 

Swansea In: Korey Smith (Bristol City), Freddie Woodman (Newcastle, loan) 

Watford In: Jeremy Ngakia (West Ham)

Wycombe In: None 

Most of those clubs are starting from a better position.

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15 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I dont think any of those are particularly bad signings to be honest. 

Bernardo had played 50 odd games at the top level in Spain and was a low risk free transfer whom we made a good profit on. 

Fischer had a reputation of being full of promise as a youngster. Had lost his way a little but again at a low cost was worth the risk on raw potential imo. Again, not very expensive and we didn't lose much on him.

Barragan spent pretty much his whole career before and after us in the top flight in Spain- again cost us a minimal amount. On paper another good signing. 

Valdes - his previous two clubs to us were united and Barcelona and he had won everhthing in football. On top of that he actually had a good season with us until he decided to pack his bags after karanka left. 

It was the January transfers that screwed us. You mention about dismantling the promotion side - this probably was done too quickly but friend, clayton, ayala, leadbitter- they were all caught out at premier league level. Only gibson and to a lesser extent Stuani showed anything when given the chance in he premier league, so in that sense we were rather forced to make so many signings. 

I think we were screwed full stop to be honest, we only hsd 4 wins before the January transfer window and with the best will in the world you're not going to massively improve in a January transfer window especially with the rare commodity that is creativity at that level. We would have needed some massive signings to make us competitive, especially with the second half of the season Swansea had

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

Come on, it clearly wasn't the January window that screwed us.  The players you mention there did next to nothing for us, so they were bad signings.  Their records elsewhere are irrelevant.  We made lots of signings in that summer that hardly contributed to us during the season, that was the problem.  Negredo, Chambers and de Roon aside, the rest may as well have not been here.  I'd add Ramirez to that list as well but then he shafted us from January onward.  The January transfer window was bad but the summer window was bad as well, and that's why we struggled.  The summer window is when you do most of your business, if you get that wrong then you're in trouble because January isn't the best time to make meaningful additions.

Our aim was to avoid relegation and we were in a position to do that up until post January. One significant forward signing in January and valdes/ramirez not disappearing and I firmly believe we would have stayed up and the season would have been considered a success. Some of the signings didn't perform great but they were helping keep our head above water for much of the season, we just couldn't see it through. 

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9 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Says who and what is the evidence for this?  It's just people, like you, saying it without any justification as far as I can see.  This is a list of the players we've signed in the last 5 years.  First list is permanent transfers only, second is loan signings.

Baptiste, Downing, Stuani, Nugent, de Pena, Rhodes, de Sart, de Roon, Ramirez, Traore, Valdes, Guzan, Fischer, Barragan, Fabio, Espinosa, Gestede, Bamford, Guedioura, Assombalonga, Braithwaite, Fletcher, Howson, Randolph, Shotton, Christie, Johnson, Wing (Non League), Miller, Armstrong (Non league), Flint, Saville, McNair, Lonergan, Mikel, Dijksteel, Bola, Browne, Stojanovic, Mejias.

That's 40 permanent signings in 5 years.

Kike Sola, Amorebieta, Stephens, Ramirez, De Laet, Zuculini, Fabbrini, Agazzi, Chambers, Negredo, Roberts, Baker, Harrison, Besic, Cranie, Van La Parra, Batth, McQueen, Hugill, Roberts, Nmecha, Makoudi, Morrison.

That's 23 loan signings in 5 years.

So we've signed 62 players (Ramirez is in twice) total in 5 years with 40 of them being permanent.  As far as I can tell, the only players who come from this area are Downing, Wing, Armstrong and Hugill.  About half of them aren't even British.  And it's also worth considering that part of this period is when we were cutting costs and not splashing out much on new signings but we've still averaged 8 permanent signings per season and nearly 5 loan signings as well.  That's nearly 13 signings a year!  However, we can't attract players?  

Our issue hasn't been a failure to attract players.  Go through those lists and it's quite clear, to me at least, that our issue has been signing players who weren't up to it or players who were a poor fit for us.  This happened both with and without finances, whether the club was on the up or down and even when we were a Premier League club.  We didn't have to sign these players, they weren't the only options for us, we chose to sign them and in a lot of cases we messed up.  Some signings were ok, some not so good and some screwed us over (like Ramirez).  I just don't see an inability to attract players.  We clearly aren't going to compete with bigger clubs than us, Premier League clubs, clubs with greater resources etc, but that's par for the course.  Lyle Taylor didn't join Forest ahead of us because he's always wanted to live in Nottingham, they offered him the best deal and he took it.  Moore went to Cardiff for the Welsh reasons.  As for Hall coming here, it probably had something to do with Warnock, but I will say it's an absolute certainty that we offered him more money than QPR did so he chose the best contract.  Most footballers do at the end of the day, whatever reasons they give publicly for joining a club.

 

Why can't I like this twice?

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27 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I dont think any of those are particularly bad signings to be honest. 

Bernardo had played 50 odd games at the top level in Spain and was a low risk free transfer whom we made a good profit on. 

Fischer had a reputation of being full of promise as a youngster. Had lost his way a little but again at a low cost was worth the risk on raw potential imo. Again, not very expensive and we didn't lose much on him.

Barragan spent pretty much his whole career before and after us in the top flight in Spain- again cost us a minimal amount. On paper another good signing. 

Valdes - his previous two clubs to us were united and Barcelona and he had won everhthing in football. On top of that he actually had a good season with us until he decided to pack his bags after karanka left. 

It was the January transfers that screwed us. You mention about dismantling the promotion side - this probably was done too quickly but friend, clayton, ayala, leadbitter- they were all caught out at premier league level. Only gibson and to a lesser extent Stuani showed anything when given the chance in he premier league, so in that sense we were rather forced to make so many signings. 

Sorry totally disgaree on just about every point. They were awful signings. Promise, how many games they had played on the top flight, who they had played for in the past doesn't disguise the fact they were no better than what we had.

 

This combined with the fact they totally disrupted the promotion team and were probably on a lot of money proves what an absolute mess the club made that summer 

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17 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Says who and what is the evidence for this?  It's just people, like you, saying it without any justification as far as I can see.  This is a list of the players we've signed in the last 5 years.  First list is permanent transfers only, second is loan signings.

Baptiste, Downing, Stuani, Nugent, de Pena, Rhodes, de Sart, de Roon, Ramirez, Traore, Valdes, Guzan, Fischer, Barragan, Fabio, Espinosa, Gestede, Bamford, Guedioura, Assombalonga, Braithwaite, Fletcher, Howson, Randolph, Shotton, Christie, Johnson, Wing (Non League), Miller, Armstrong (Non league), Flint, Saville, McNair, Lonergan, Mikel, Dijksteel, Bola, Browne, Stojanovic, Mejias.

That's 40 permanent signings in 5 years.

Kike Sola, Amorebieta, Stephens, Ramirez, De Laet, Zuculini, Fabbrini, Agazzi, Chambers, Negredo, Roberts, Baker, Harrison, Besic, Cranie, Van La Parra, Batth, McQueen, Hugill, Roberts, Nmecha, Makoudi, Morrison.

That's 23 loan signings in 5 years.

So we've signed 62 players (Ramirez is in twice) total in 5 years with 40 of them being permanent.  As far as I can tell, the only players who come from this area are Downing, Wing, Armstrong and Hugill.  About half of them aren't even British.  And it's also worth considering that part of this period is when we were cutting costs and not splashing out much on new signings but we've still averaged 8 permanent signings per season and nearly 5 loan signings as well.  That's nearly 13 signings a year!  However, we can't attract players?  

Our issue hasn't been a failure to attract players.  Go through those lists and it's quite clear, to me at least, that our issue has been signing players who weren't up to it or players who were a poor fit for us.  This happened both with and without finances, whether the club was on the up or down and even when we were a Premier League club.  We didn't have to sign these players, they weren't the only options for us, we chose to sign them and in a lot of cases we messed up.  Some signings were ok, some not so good and some screwed us over (like Ramirez).  I just don't see an inability to attract players.  We clearly aren't going to compete with bigger clubs than us, Premier League clubs, clubs with greater resources etc, but that's par for the course.  Lyle Taylor didn't join Forest ahead of us because he's always wanted to live in Nottingham, they offered him the best deal and he took it.  Moore went to Cardiff for the Welsh reasons.  As for Hall coming here, it probably had something to do with Warnock, but I will say it's an absolute certainty that we offered him more money than QPR did so he chose the best contract.  Most footballers do at the end of the day, whatever reasons they give publicly for joining a club.

 

for me its not about attracting players, its the fact that when were in a head to head race to sign somebody, we seems to be losing out. 
for example, in your list, how many of those players did we pay over the odds for or did we face no real competition when signing them? i think alot of players fall into that  and thats the problem for me, not that we cant attract players, just we have to pay more to get them to come here.

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Add Skipp to that Norwich list....sounds like they are expecting sales or beefing up squad quite a bit

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