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The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 aka TURN DOWN FOR WHAT(more)


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49 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Gibson deal is close, thanks for him turning down loads of other opportunities. Burnley finally getting sick of his behaviour and just want rid of him. One thing that annoys me about this situation, as fans crucified Braithwaite for wanting out and trying to engineer a move away but yet were happy to accept back Gibson because he is a local lad. 100% I want Gibson back as he will massively improve us but just find the club very hypocritical in the whole situation.

I totally understand that, yes. Based on what little I know of the situations, they're pretty similar in the very basics. Player power being ultimately exerted, what the club wants matters very little, both Burnley and us being drove into shitty situations.

I don't like it from either of the players but I will say as a fan, you look at it and think "This player really wants to play for us, wonderful". And we all know Gibson from his time here and know the talent he has at this level especially and we'd be daft to say no to it. The difference in these terms with the Braithwaite situation would appear to be instead of Gibson just wanting out of Burnley, he wants to be back here. Braithwaite just wanted away from us and didn't really give a cack where he ended up.

And yes, both clubs have to take their responsibilities from the situation, too. Burnley paid a record fee for a defender they didn't want to play, they rarely rotate their squad, especially in defence and that's fair enough. But that does mean they weren't desperate for another defender, they didn't get shot of Tarkowski in the end and that just left Gibson fighting his way back in order to sit on the bench. I can understand his frustrations more than with Braithwaite as I think Gibson would have stayed if he was given time to play. But we also did offer Braithwaite a bumper contract and however much we got screwed over by him, the contract is still our responsibility to get right.

But it's also important to acknowledge with Braithwaite, if he'd had his head on straight, he would have been a starter every week. We all saw those opening few games in Pulis' first full season, we know he had the intelligence to grab goals even in that team. Then the window ended and he completely switched off. He did it for one reason; to get the clubs to notice him and recognise he was worth the bid. Once that opportunity went away, he turned off and couldn't wait to get back out on loan.

So yeah, similar situations at the basic level but Braithwaite didn't care where he ended up and unlike Gibson, he could have played but didn't want to.

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Hi guys! PAOK fan here from Greece. You are getting a really hard worker in Akpom. He is a top lad and a good professional. When he first came, he was considered a bench player. It was the 2018-19 sea

Morsy nearly done

Williams fee nearly agreed. 1.75million rising to 2.5 (So 1.75 then 😂).

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I’m disappointed we haven’t got people over the line, but I can’t say that I am surprised. You look at other teams who have got players in, they’re already off to a better start than us, without us needing to replace all the senior pros who have left. 

The bottom line is that there are easily going to be 6 different teams better than us this season. We just need to hope that there are 4 worse than us. I don’t think it will be as bad as the Woodgate season, because Warnock will get more out of them.
But the way the window has gone so far, I’m questioning if Gibson has told Warnock that “promotion is our aim” just to get him to come and keep us up on the cheap. Like he tried to do with Woodgate but Warnock actually could. 
If we have the money there and a higher wage ceiling, then I don’t get why we aren’t getting players in? I know we say “blah blah it’s bauser” but it seems like he is actively scuppering deals. 
100% a post with a tin foil hat on, but it does make you wonder. 

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53 minutes ago, J.T. said:

If we get Gibson and we are going with 3-5-2 this season, the first 11 isn’t far off. There are certainly areas that could do with strengthening and improving but I wouldn’t be too displeased if this was the side we put out against Watford:

 

———————Stojanovic———————

———Fry———Hall———Gibson———

Spence———————————Coulson

————Tav—Howson—Saville————

—————Britt———Fletcher—————

 

They seemed ok Here in Plymouth against a very good Div 1 side winning 1-0 & 3-1

 

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I still hope when push comes to shove that we will sign the players we need. At the moment everyone - buying clubs, selling clubs and players are playing hardball. We are standing much firmer than in the past. We should hopefully end up only with players who want to be here.

It is a gamble and not something we have tried for 30 odd years. But I think regardless we have enough to tread water. This season is going to be bonkers - more than likely will get stopped at some point due to COVID. Cases are now at the same level as just before lockdown. When schools go back cases will rise and pubs etc will have to shut. What happens to sport then?

So this really could be the ultimate in just survival in all senses. So not splashing loads of cash of players who may not play for 12 months is probably not a bad idea.

Lots of ifs, buts and maybe's in there but could happen.

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1 hour ago, diggerlad07 said:

Gibson deal is close, thanks for him turning down loads of other opportunities. Burnley finally getting sick of his behaviour and just want rid of him. One thing that annoys me about this situation, as fans crucified Braithwaite for wanting out and trying to engineer a move away but yet were happy to accept back Gibson because he is a local lad. 100% I want Gibson back as he will massively improve us but just find the club very hypocritical in the whole situation.

Gibson is engineering a move away because Burnley have made it clear that he's not in their plans, to the point they don't even want him training with them. I'd say at that point he's well within his rights to dictate where he wants to go. The difference with Braithwaite is that he was still going to play, Pulis was playing him. He didn't like it and kicked up a fuss to force a move. Again well within his rights, but I think there are differences between the two.

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32 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Does anyone think Warnock has come in to just basically fulfill Woodgate's remit.... balance the books and avoid relegation? 

It would seem like a pretty unattractive job but if Warnock is getting a good wage for 15 months then maybe he's happy with not challenging for promotion? 

Just a thought. 

I don't think Warnock has come in specifically to do that, himself. I think he's come in to give it a good go to take the club to the top end. I don't think based on what he'd said prior to the end of last season that money is very much an issue for him, though I've no doubt he's being paid a decent wage.

Still, that doesn't stop the feeling in my guts right now that the club is operating as if that's what we're doing this season. I don't know why he's here if that's the case. To guide the club through the uncertainty of the pandemic era of football? What a waste of a year, as if no other manager could do that. A waste of what Warnock is good at...

...yet on the flip side, if it means we're better set up in a year's time to offer someone else a cleaner slate with contracts that won't be as difficult to shift and not a lot of money wasted on trash, then who knows, maybe there is some long-term thought going into this.

So yeah, I am starting to feel that the club's agenda is to be safe with as few tools as possible, Warnock can do that. Whether that's good enough for him is another thing. If it means we're in a good state and pick our manager next year successfully then fine. But why we couldn't just do that now is actually baffling to me. We could be investing in the new man and actually making deals we want to make rather than fluffing out of deals we just don't want to be lumbered with in a year's time.

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7 minutes ago, Will said:

Gibson is engineering a move away because Burnley have made it clear that he's not in their plans, to the point they don't even want him training with them. I'd say at that point he's well within his rights to dictate where he wants to go. The difference with Braithwaite is that he was still going to play, Pulis was playing him. He didn't like it and kicked up a fuss to force a move. Again well within his rights, but I think there are differences between the two.

The fall out with Dyche must of been something more than Gibson just not playing though I would hope otherwise thats just unprofessional in my eyes.

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The reality is that we very rarely get to hear about what clubs and managers are doing to players in scenarios like Braithwaite's and Gibson's, but we hear everything about why the player is in the wrong from those managers and clubs.

If a player speaks out against his manager, he can be fined wages. If a manager speaks out about a player, that's fine. He's "doing his job." But there's a difference between being a Boss, a manager, and a leader. I'd always prefer the latter. 

The scenario surrounding Bamford leaving was not as Pulis or the club wanted us to believe. But it was spun in a way which allowed all three parties to come out of it looking like they'd benefitted. Simple PR. Tha Braithwaite situation was very far from one sided - and the link between the two? Tony Pulis. The master of keeping himself out the line of fire.

Dyche is similar in a way. Gibson isn't the first player to hate playing under him, and he won't be the last. But he's positioned himself so that he has a strangle hold of the scrutiny that Burnley face, so when they're doing well, he takes the plaudits. If they're doing poorly, it's the board and players fault.

I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to play for someone like Pulis or Dyche. I'd hazard a guess that several of us have worked under someone who is damaging to us - either in our confidence, abilities, or our mental health. I certainly have. Just because footballers are millionaires doesn't change the reality that there's those toxic characters in football too.

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5 minutes ago, Humpty said:

I've been away a while but i'm guessing this is just jokes?

If I read it right, I would expect that Vickers was Thor or one of the other WUMs in this scenario. 😄

 

5 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

The fall out with Dyche must of been something more than Gibson just not playing though I would hope otherwise thats just unprofessional in my eyes.

I mean, it depends. As a record signing on big wages, I wouldn't put it past the agents to demand playing time. If he was told he was going to play every week or even every other week, I'd say he had a justifiable reason to get upset with Dyche and Burnley about. That would be one side not sticking to their side of the bargain.

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4 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I don't think Warnock has come in specifically to do that, himself. I think he's come in to give it a good go to take the club to the top end. I don't think based on what he'd said prior to the end of last season that money is very much an issue for him, though I've no doubt he's being paid a decent wage.

Still, that doesn't stop the feeling in my guts right now that the club is operating as if that's what we're doing this season. I don't know why he's here if that's the case. To guide the club through the uncertainty of the pandemic era of football? What a waste of a year, as if no other manager could do that. A waste of what Warnock is good at...

...yet on the flip side, if it means we're better set up in a year's time to offer someone else a cleaner slate with contracts that won't be as difficult to shift and not a lot of money wasted on trash, then who knows, maybe there is some long-term thought going into this.

So yeah, I am starting to feel that the club's agenda is to be safe with as few tools as possible, Warnock can do that. Whether that's good enough for him is another thing. If it means we're in a good state and pick our manager next year successfully then fine. But why we couldn't just do that now is actually baffling to me. We could be investing in the new man and actually making deals we want to make rather than fluffing out of deals we just don't want to be lumbered with in a year's time.

I'm just wondering do we need to take a step back to take a few steps forward. Maybe like the Mowbray era we still need to ship out a few of the big earners before we go again, we've obviously still got a couple of big earners left that still need to be moved on. 

What does Warnock get out of it? Well he gets to manage his 1500th game (I think it is?), he'll get paid well (I'm sure its still a factor) and he doesn't have to commit to a long term contract which keeps his wife happy.

Maybe he sees the reality of the situation, we are miles off promotion but if we suddenly get lucky and find a couple of gems on loan etc and scrape into the playoffs he looks like a miracle worker. If we finish 5th bottom he can ride off into the sunset with his retirement fund boosted and say he's done what was asked of him. 

Normally speaking, the prospect of lower half championship football would *** me off. But in the current climate if we are simply looking to survive as a football club for the next 12 months Warnock is one of the best managers you could have at working with a small budget. 

I'm not saying all this is right, I'm just thinking out loud. 

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8 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

The fall out with Dyche must of been something more than Gibson just not playing though I would hope otherwise thats just unprofessional in my eyes.

He went there as a record transfer with a promise of being one of the starting CB's. He was on the fringes of the England squad only a year earlier. If I'd been promised that and 18 months later I've had less than 10 appearances in all competitions I'd be incredibly annoyed, and justifiably so.

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  • Borodane changed the title to The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 (playing the Chuba?)

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