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The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 aka TURN DOWN FOR WHAT(more)

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Just now, Changing Times said:

So what you're saying is that because we haven't signed anyone, we'll be forced to play a system that Warnock doesn't really want to play?  Hooray!

The flip side to that is this:

A manager who is flexible enough to fit his system around the players strengths and doesn't just smush square pegs into round holes, yay!

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Just now, Brunners said:

The flip side to that is this:

A manager who is flexible enough to fit his system around the players strengths and doesn't just smush square pegs into round holes, yay!

A manager, who at the age of 71, has suddenly decided to play a different way than he has done for most of his career.  Yes, that would be because he's flexible and would have nothing to do with our inability to bring new players in. 

He wants to play 4 at the back quite clearly.  We just need to get him the players so that he feels comfortable doing that.

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8 minutes ago, Brunners said:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/middlesbrough/12062810/warnock-targets-up-to-five-signings

Warnock still targeting up to  5. One in middle of next week, before Watford, 3 or 4 more before the window shuts.

Yeah i think we can say with certainty the 5 positions are as follows

GK, CB, Midfielder & Striker x2.

I am hoping the 2 forwards are Zohore and Bonne as opposed to two target men. Can Bonne also play wide? Not as a winger but like an inside forward type? 

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I've heard nothing from Warnock today that sounded any different to what Pulis was saying, and we know how that window ended up.

He was still talking positively in public about bringing in the players he needed in the days before he ended up sat in the pub downing cider.

We'll get some players in, of that I have no doubt, but I don't think many are going to be close to what Warnock actually wanted at the start of the window.

We'll do well to get him Zohore, I'm sure he'd be fairly happy with that as a signing.

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7 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

So what you're saying is that because we haven't signed anyone, we'll be forced to play a system that Warnock doesn't really want to play?  Hooray!

Not quite. I'm saying that, given the players at our disposal and the reality of the market and greater societal situation, he might have looked at who we have available and adapted his ideal to suit what is available. Like you'd hope any decent manager would. Why write out 2 high potential youngsters who're readily available in an already small squad? Any manager worth their wage will have some adaptability of their preferred systems. Not all managers are Tony Pulis...

Surely that's better than forcing players out of position, as we have done previously? I'd rather Spence at RWB than RB. I'd rather Coulson or Johnson at LWB than LB. But we still have the likes of Folarin and Johnson who can play more natural winger roles, so it's not like we couldn't switch systems for certain games.

It's also not like Warnock has only ever played 4-3-3 in his over one thousand games as a manager. And 3-5-2 can be very adaptable when you have someone like Dijksteel/McNair as the "Beckenbauer" (Warnock, 2020) CB, meaning it can easily adapt into a 4-4-2 or even 4-3-3 at the drop of a hat, dependent on who we have in certain areas. It's a difficult system to master because so many players have multiple roles to play/cover, but it has the potential to be very dynamic and difficult to play against.

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17 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

A manager, who at the age of 71, has suddenly decided to play a different way than he has done for most of his career.  Yes, that would be because he's flexible and would have nothing to do with our inability to bring new players in. 

He wants to play 4 at the back quite clearly.  We just need to get him the players so that he feels comfortable doing that.

I don't think they're mutually exclusive things though.

I, personally, think it's a good thing that he's adaptable enough that he isn't going to try and force the 433 to work when we don't have the players for it. Regardless of our recruitment that's a good trait to have as a manager.

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1 minute ago, Brunners said:

I don't think they're mutually exclusive things though.

I, personally, think it's a good thing that he's adaptable enough that he isn't going to try and force the 433 to work when we don't have the players for it. Regardless of our recruitment that's a good trait to have as a manager.

He's 71 and he has played the same way pretty much for all of that, certainly that I can remember.  We've signed one player in the transfer window and we already had a lack of players in certain positions.  Do you think we'd be doing it if we'd been able to add players to the squad of the kind he'd like?  Flexibility is a good trait, I think you're right there, but this is forced on him, it's not by choice, and I would say there's a difference.

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1 hour ago, BoroBoy1989 said:

Confirmed team for tomorrow:

         Stoj
   Fry Hall Djik
Marv         Spence 
Howson wing Tav
     Britt Fletch

 

Confirmed by whom?

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

He's 71 and he has played the same way pretty much for all of that, certainly that I can remember.  We've signed one player in the transfer window and we already had a lack of players in certain positions.  Do you think we'd be doing it if we'd been able to add players to the squad of the kind he'd like?  Flexibility is a good trait, I think you're right there, but this is forced on him, it's not by choice, and I would say there's a difference.

Who says it's not by choice? What are you basing that on? What evidence?

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6 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

Not quite. I'm saying that, given the players at our disposal and the reality of the market and greater societal situation, he might have looked at who we have available and adapted his ideal to suit what is available. Like you'd hope any decent manager would. Why write out 2 high potential youngsters who're readily available in an already small squad? Any manager worth their wage will have some adaptability of their preferred systems. Not all managers are Tony Pulis...

Surely that's better than forcing players out of position, as we have done previously? I'd rather Spence at RWB than RB. I'd rather Coulson or Johnson at LWB than LB. But we still have the likes of Folarin and Johnson who can play more natural winger roles, so it's not like we couldn't switch systems for certain games.

It's also not like Warnock has only ever played 4-3-3 in his over one thousand games as a manager. And 3-5-2 can be very adaptable when you have someone like Dijksteel/McNair as the "Beckenbauer" (Warnock, 2020) CB, meaning it can easily adapt into a 4-4-2 or even 4-3-3 at the drop of a hat, dependent on who we have in certain areas. It's a difficult system to master because so many players have multiple roles to play/cover, but it has the potential to be very dynamic and difficult to play against.

Pulis played 3-5-2 as well.

Sorry, but what you're saying is that. as we've failed in the transfer market to date, then Warnock might have to set us up in a different way than he almost certainly wants to set us up.  He clearly wants to play 4 at the back.  He wanted to play it in the 8 games he's already had, even if that meant playing Johnson as a left back, and a central defensive partnership of Friend and Fry.  That he's pragmatic enough to consider something different is the least I'd expect of him tbh.

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3 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

Who says it's not by choice? What are you basing that on? What evidence?

His career to date?  The fact that he's played 4 at the back already, despite us not really having the players for it.  That kind of thing.

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3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Pulis played 3-5-2 as well.

Sorry, but what you're saying is that. as we've failed in the transfer market to date, then Warnock might have to set us up in a different way than he almost certainly wants to set us up.  He clearly wants to play 4 at the back.  He wanted to play it in the 8 games he's already had, even if that meant playing Johnson as a left back, and a central defensive partnership of Friend and Fry.  That he's pragmatic enough to consider something different is the least I'd expect of him tbh.

yes but we are not playing cb's and cm's in the wingback spots with warnock. if you play wingbacks they need to be up and down not just sat next to the cb's under pulis it was a 532 at best.

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Just now, Dynamo Kev said:

yes but we are not playing cb's and cm's in the wingback spots with warnock. if you play wingbacks they need to be up and down not just sat next to the cb's under pulis it was a 532 at best.

What does it matter?  He was 'flexible' enough to put Howson and Saville out there for example/  Do you think that's what he really wanted to do,r that he made that decision based on a lack of suitable players in certain attacking positions?

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