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The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 aka TURN DOWN FOR WHAT(more)

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7 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

I think the praise he gets his unreal... please tell me including the last last 8 games of last season, what he has contributed to the team? 

Again, what praise?

He gets nothing but slated on here and people just wilfully ignore the good stuff that he does do. 

Just this weekend he made some good defensive plays - one of which I know @Changing Times at least noticed.

His runs and movement are still raw and yes he seems to be lacking in confidence right now, but the lad is what, 20? With less than a season of professional football under his belt.

Cut the guy some slack ffs.

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He's been in the team for 6 months, don't we know that's the length of time he needs to make the role his own? We should sell him for a tenner, no chance he'll ever improve now.

In all seriousness, I don't think he's started this season well but he's hardly alone there, is he? Like most others, he did improve against Bournemouth. Can't see why he'd be the wing back you'd single out though. Marvin Johnson has more than half a career's more experience than every other full back we have, he's unlikely to improve and yet our manager thinks he's the dog's ***. Spence, Dijksteel, Coulson and Bola all have time on their sides.

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25 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Again, what praise?

He gets nothing but slated on here and people just wilfully ignore the good stuff that he does do. 

Just this weekend he made some good defensive plays - one of which I know @Changing Times at least noticed.

His runs and movement are still raw and yes he seems to be lacking in confidence right now, but the lad is what, 20? With less than a season of professional football under his belt.

Cut the guy some slack ffs.

Sorry but I see the opposite posts to you, I often see people bumming about his performance because he's done one fancy flick/nutmeg on someone 😅.

And fans also are quick to criticise the likes of Britt, Saville, Clayton 😅. Honestly some of the fans on here have rose tinted glasses. Just because he's young and raw doesn't make him exempt from criticism.

I just don't see what he offers right now and would much rather have Fry CB and Dijksteel as RWB .

Not clever enough to be a winger and defence position play extremely poor in a back 4. (Reminds me so much of Justin Hoyte especially in his younger arsenal days).

I agree he's raw but if he isn't offering anything and hasn't been for a while so I'd rather just be solid and put fry in there.

Out of the wing backs we look more dangerous with Johnson on the left which just shows how poor our current situation is.

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Just now, diggerlad07 said:

And fans also are quick to criticise the likes of Britt, Saville, Clayton 😅. Honestly some of the fans on here have rose tinted glasses. Just because he's young and raw doesn't make him exempt from criticism.

I just don't see what he offers right now and would much rather have Fry CB and Dijksteel as RWB .

Not clever enough to be a winger and defence position play extremely poor in a back 4. (Reminds me so much of Justin Hoyte especially in his younger arsenal days).

I agree he's raw but if he isn't offering anything and hasn't been for a while so I'd rather just be solid and put fry in there.

Out of the wing backs we look more dangerous with Johnson on the left which just shows how poor our current situation is.

What?! Johnson has been far, FAR worse as an option than Spence has! 

I don't criticise any of the 3 players mentioned (except from a couple valid points about Claytons legs at times, but DS will tell you I was his number one fan on this forum).

Spence did alright defensively vs Bournemouth and his ability in a back 4 not only can improve, but isn't terribly relevant in a season where we're likely to play 352 for 90+% of the time. 

AND he wasn't even that bad going forward either. He appears to be scared to try and take people on at the moment for some reason, whether that's an instruction thing or a personal confidence thing I don't know, but he's still making himself available and playing some nice short passes. His delivery is his biggest let down, but again, the kid is 20 and has played like 20 something games ffs.

Not only that, but you bring up playing Fry who has, in all honestly, arguably been in the top 3 for most disappointing players at the club for the last season and a bit AND moving over Dijksteel who did start improving towards the end of last season at RB but has looked PHENOMENAL at RCB in every game he's played so far. 

For me, Fry doesn't make the team even when at 100% atm, not with how well Paddy and Dijksteel do either side of a slower player like Hall. I don't want Fry ever touching the left side of defence ever again and if he replaces Dijksteel with his form atm I'll scream.

For me, personally, based on current form I'd much rather our right hand side was Dijksteel & Spence over Fry & Dijksteel.

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2 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

And fans also are quick to criticise the likes of Britt, Saville, Clayton 😅. Honestly some of the fans on here have rose tinted glasses. Just because he's young and raw doesn't make him exempt from criticism.

I just don't see what he offers right now and would much rather have Fry CB and Dijksteel as RWB .

Not clever enough to be a winger and defence position play extremely poor in a back 4. (Reminds me so much of Justin Hoyte especially in his younger arsenal days).

I agree he's raw but if he isn't offering anything and hasn't been for a while so I'd rather just be solid and put fry in there.

Out of the wing backs we look more dangerous with Johnson on the left which just shows how poor our current situation is.

it's serioualy too early to judge anyone this season. 

only Dijksteel and Mcnair are performing at a level we all want them too

most improved against Bournemouth.

Some got into good poistion but fuffed it, others got into good poistions but the team didn't get them the ball, but everyone gave 100% 

with Spence, i'm ok with giving him more games in a settled right side and see how it develops. 

Same with Johnson TBF, but we are desperatley missing a left footed CB, that can support him like Dijksteel does for Spence

 

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11 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Sorry but I see the opposite posts to you, I often see people bumming about his performance because he's done one fancy flick/nutmeg on someone 😅.

Search the term "Spence" in the search box and you'll see at least 2 comments out of 2 whole pages were someone praises him. Not sure if you are missing the posts that criticise him and are homing in on the few that praise him.

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2 minutes ago, Brunners said:

What?! Johnson has been far, FAR worse as an option than Spence has! 

I don't criticise any of the 3 players mentioned (except from a couple valid points about Claytons legs at times, but DS will tell you I was his number one fan on this forum).

Spence did alright defensively vs Bournemouth and his ability in a back 4 not only can improve, but isn't terribly relevant in a season where we're likely to play 352 for 90+% of the time. 

AND he wasn't even that bad going forward either. He appears to be scared to try and take people on at the moment for some reason, whether that's an instruction thing or a personal confidence thing I don't know, but he's still making himself available and playing some nice short passes. His delivery is his biggest let down, but again, the kid is 20 and has played like 20 something games ffs.

Not only that, but you bring up playing Fry who has, in all honestly, arguably been in the top 3 for most disappointing players at the club for the last season and a bit AND moving over Dijksteel who did start improving towards the end of last season at RB but has looked PHENOMENAL at RCB in every game he's played so far. 

For me, Fry doesn't make the team even when at 100% atm, not with how well Paddy and Dijksteel do either side of a slower player like Hall. I don't want Fry ever touching the left side of defence ever again and if he replaces Dijksteel with his form atm I'll scream.

For me, personally, based on current form I'd much rather our right hand side was Dijksteel & Spence over Fry & Dijksteel.

Just wait until until a couple of defeats and people will talk about trying square pegs in round holes with Dijksteel as CB.

Dijksteel has had 2 decent performances at CB as has Mcnair so to say they are better CB's than Fry is completely laughable and a joke. I agree Fry isnt a left sided CB and he would probably agree. (but again here comes the criticism of our homegrown players - absolute joke).

Wait until McNair and Dijksteel come up against a striker like Denney, Keifer Moore and you will see exactly why they are not CB's.

McNair is our best CM imo and wasted as CB, that showed again at the weekend. 

Difference of opinions but Johnson is creating a lot more chances and is a lot better defensively than Spence imo.

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2 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Just wait until until a couple of defeats and people will talk about trying square pegs in round holes with Dijksteel as CB.

Dijksteel has had 2 decent performances at CB as has Mcnair so to say they are better CB's than Fry is completely laughable and a joke. I agree Fry isnt a left sided CB and he would probably agree. (but again here comes the criticism of our homegrown players - absolute joke).

Wait until McNair and Dijksteel come up against a striker like Denney, Keifer Moore and you will see exactly why they are not CB's.

McNair is our best CM imo and wasted as CB, that showed again at the weekend. 

Difference of opinions but Johnson is creating a lot more chances and is a lot better defensively than Spence imo.

well, that's where you hope that an experienced Manager like Warnock, picks the right team

McNair is also our best LCB at the moment. I thought his switch with Howson worked well on Saturday, allowed us to overload the right hand side.

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5 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Difference of opinions but Johnson is creating a lot more chances and is a lot better defensively than Spence imo.

Statistically (if you believe them), Johnson and Spence have made the same amount of tackles (5), the same amount of interceptions (3) too. Spence has a slightly lower tackle %. They've both blocked the same amount of crosses too (1).

Johnson has a pass completion of 50%, Spence has a pass completion of 65%. They've both made the same amount of key passes (1). They've both made the same amount of successful crossed (1), but Spence has a successful cross % almost double Johnson's.

Just some unbiased stats, to show actually statistically they are similar as it stands.

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9 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Statistically (if you believe them), Johnson and Spence have made the same amount of tackles (5), the same amount of interceptions (3) too. Spence has a slightly lower tackle %. They've both blocked the same amount of crosses too (1).

Johnson has a pass completion of 50%, Spence has a pass completion of 65%. They've both made the same amount of key passes (1). They've both made the same amount of successful crossed (1), but Spence has a successful cross % almost double Johnson's.

Just some unbiased stats, to show actually statistically they are similar as it stands.

Thanks mate, honestly not having a dig at you but for me stats can be misleading (sorry CT). You are coming up against different type of players so it can restrict how you play which inevitably will affect stats for example Johnson came up against Brooks at the weekend so he was always going to be more disciplined in his play.

I really don't rate Johnson for the record, but he gets a lot of hate on here which annoys me when I see him as the better of the 2 wing backs since lockdown. Ideally I'd love to drop the fu***g wingback formation and go to a flat back 4 but that would mean a whole new full backs and attackers.

Anyways I will stop here because I am coming off thread!

Who's next through the door? I'm just clinging onto hope that somehow we can persuade man City in freeing Roberts up on loan again. He's the difference for me.

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11 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Thanks mate, honestly not having a dig at you but for me stats can be misleading (sorry CT). You are coming up against different type of players so it can restrict how you play which inevitably will affect stats for example Johnson came up against Brooks at the weekend so he was always going to be more disciplined in his play.

I really don't rate Johnson for the record, but he gets a lot of hate on here which annoys me when I see him as the better of the 2 wing backs since lockdown. Ideally I'd love to drop the fu***g wingback formation and go to a flat back 4 but that would mean a whole new full backs and attackers.

Anyways I will stop here because I am coming off thread!

Who's next through the door? I'm just clinging onto hope that somehow we can persuade man City in freeing Roberts up on loan again. He's the difference for me.

So do you know if we are actively after roberts? Just that warnock made out he wasnt 

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4 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Thanks mate, honestly not having a dig at you but for me stats can be misleading (sorry CT). You are coming up against different type of players so it can restrict how you play which inevitably will affect stats for example Johnson came up against Brooks at the weekend so he was always going to be more disciplined in his play.

I really don't rate Johnson for the record, but he gets a lot of hate on here which annoys me when I see him as the better of the 2 wing backs since lockdown. Ideally I'd love to drop the fu***g wingback formation and go to a flat back 4 but that would mean a whole new full backs and attackers.

That's fine I haven't taken it as a dig. Of course stats can be misleading. But I think in the right context (which is important) they can certainly help either shape an opinion or backup what you have seen firsthand. Personally you need a balance of visually seeing things within a game of football, and also the statistics to back that up or disprove, if you catch my drift.

Didn't Spence have Danjuma to cover in the Bournemouth game? (who I think is also a very good player, much like Brooks). I wasn't able to see the Bournemouth game in full, so I cannot pass much judgement on Spence/Johnson. I did watch the Watford game and personally they were both pretty average in that game.

In my opinion if we went to a back 4, I think Dijksteel could slot into the right back position fairly comfortably. But I think we'd need a more "solid" left back.

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2 minutes ago, Mfcdanny said:

So do you know if we are actively after roberts? Just that warnock made out he wasnt 

We were and would still be keen but man City want to offload for £3.5million and have knocked back numerous loan offers from us and elsewhere for him. Later, he's still there in the window there is a chance that he could re-sign but it's extremely slim.

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