The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 aka TURN DOWN FOR WHAT(more)

[Brunners 2,169]

9 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Jeez this is some Stockholm syndrome ***! Just because its how it is doesnt mean accepting that facr should make us any happier.

We could easily have gone with wingers - this rubbish about us basing the squad around what we have suiting this system best doesn't wash with me. 

Warnock has signed 5 players (i include Johnson in that because he was out of contract and his wages could have went to another free signing instead). Pressumable he's going to sign at least one more striker and one more centre back. 

If warnock really wanted to play a 433, he could have easily done so with 5 new signings (lw, rw, lb, rb, cb) never mind another two on top of that. Given we've spent a decent amount (akpom and morsey fees, bettinelli won't have come cheap), I dont see why we couldn't have managed that.

Were going with the 532 out of choice, not out of necessity. 

To go 433 effectively you likely need two LW & two RW because we have none. You'd still need a 3rd striker too, so there's 5 signings just to make the bloody formation work. 

Whereas you can play 352/532 with what we had already, even without Johnson, without any tinkering at all. Yes, there are questions over the quality of our wingbacks, all entirely valid concerns, but that doesn't change the fact that you'd need a huge overhaul of the squad to play 433, while 352 you can just work to improve on what you have.

[Brunners 2,169]

2 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

The narrative is that warnocks hand has been forced to play this formation but its simply not true. With 7 new players you can readdress the balance of the squad to whatever formation you want. 

The decision seems to be on the basis that we have wing backs - but they've been our weakest players to so far. So far, the logic seems to be very flawed.

Not to mention the fact that if we were signing players for the 433 at the pace we are signing them atm, we would have had a preseason playing a formation the players we had at the time weren't terribly suited for, and would be trying to slot in important first team players once the season had already started. 

That's more of a recipe for disaster IMO than deciding to go the 352

[SzilardNemethsCurtains 562]

9 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

The narrative is that warnocks hand has been forced to play this formation but its simply not true. With 7 new players you can readdress the balance of the squad to whatever formation you want. 

The decision seems to be on the basis that we have wing backs - but they've been our weakest players to so far. So far, the logic seems to be very flawed.

Maybe the players he wanted in those positions didnt look achievable? I agree that we should and probably could have took a different path but dont have the best record of securing players

[SzilardNemethsCurtains 562]

2 hours ago, estonpidge said:

@SzilardNemethsCurtains they normally succeed when coming into a successful side, we can't be classed as that, rather than ruin the player with the sink or swim theory I'd prefer a gradual introduction as they are not ready to swim.

I get its the ideal but plenty of decent young players whether through academies or through a youth loan can thrive in poorer teams, we just tend to drop players as soon as they go through a poor spell rather than let them develop

[Humpty 184]

Warnock stated he needed to strengthen the spine of the team with leaders. Bettinelli, Hall, Morsy. There's three of your five signings straight off the bat. 

I'd also say that we don't have a natural, competent full back on our books. Again playing with wing backs utilises what's available to us. Johnson, Coulson, Bola, Spence, Djikesteel. What do you do with these players if you sign 2/3 new full backs? You've ultimately made them redundant and we can't afford that with our squad size.

We all know buying wingers/attacking midfielders is difficult a the best of times, not least for a club like us that is now operating with a revised wage structure. 

Warnock is a pragmatist and he's played the best hand available to him. 

[Arskite 6]

One thing you can say is that with a squad our size, no one can afford to be dropped. So at least they will get their time to develop. Problem is we are banking on them pulling through any rough patches and hoping we don't lose too many points to sub-par performances in the meantime. Seems rather risky.

[AnglianRed 1,296]

31 minutes ago, estonpidge said:

do you do them in leather?

Red with a white band round the middle? 

[Old Codger 871]

36 minutes ago, estonpidge said:

do you do them in leather?

no but she does

[Borodane 1,474]

I reckon Warnock is trying wing backs because we've been consitently crap trying to play a back 4 for the best part of 4 years now. Shake it up and try something different. Can't say I'm a fan though because he couls have shopped for a 4-3-3 if that's what he really wanted. Dijksteel at RB and not renew Johnson and instead sign a steady LB with Bola/Coulson as competition. I'm faily sure we could have sold a CM like McNair or Wing to fund a wingers.

Betinelli

Dijksteel-Fry-Hall-New LB

Howson-Tav-Morsy

Winger-Britt-Winger

That's not a lot of work over and entire window. Selling McNair might even go a long way in securing wingers like Roberts and Murphy.

[Borodane 1,474]

18 minutes ago, Humpty said:

I'd also say that we don't have a natural, competent full back on our books. Again playing with wing backs utilises what's available to us. Johnson, Coulson, Bola, Spence, Djikesteel. What do you do with these players if you sign 2/3 new full backs? You've ultimately made them redundant and we can't afford that with our squad size.

You don't resign Johnson in the first place, Dijksteel plays RB with Spence as backup while he matures and Coulson is backup to both LB and LW while Bola is in the same place as now - nowhere in the squad.

[Brunners 2,169]

2 minutes ago, Borodane said:

I reckon Warnock is trying wing backs because we've been consitently crap trying to play a back 4 for the best part of 4 years now. Shake it up and try something different. Can't say I'm a fan though because he couls have shopped for a 4-3-3 if that's what he really wanted. Dijksteel at RB and not renew Johnson and instead sign a steady LB with Bola/Coulson as competition. I'm faily sure we could have sold a CM like McNair or Wing to fund a wingers.

Betinelli

Dijksteel-Fry-Hall-New LB

Howson-Tav-Morsy

Winger-Britt-Winger

That's not a lot of work over and entire window. Selling McNair might even go a long way in securing wingers like Roberts and Murphy.

Okay cool so now you have those 3 signings for the spine of the team with the GK, CB, CM. 

So now you expect us to be able to sign 2 starting calibre wingers - likely 2 more as well because we don't have any backup for  that position either, AND a new starting LB. 

Fine, over the entire window, sure - what do we do before we get them all in (if we were even able to, which lets face it, we wouldn't be) considering the players we have now are definitely not suited to the 433?

 

[estonpidge 314]

28 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Red with a white band round the middle? 

yes please!

[Neverbefore 1,264]

9 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Okay cool so now you have those 3 signings for the spine of the team with the GK, CB, CM. 

So now you expect us to be able to sign 2 starting calibre wingers - likely 2 more as well because we don't have any backup for  that position either, AND a new starting LB. 

Fine, over the entire window, sure - what do we do before we get them all in (if we were even able to, which lets face it, we wouldn't be) considering the players we have now are definitely not suited to the 433?

 

I mean you're saying all this like were in a better position now. Were playing a midfielder in the back three, our wing backs (our only width) dont look to be up to the job and theres still zero creativity in the final third. 

I get your points, neither approach is perfect, but I prefer us to be a bit more adventurous instead of just accepting of the mediocrity. The bar has been set so damn low that were just accepting whatever were given now, grasping at any tiny little positive despite the fact that long term progress looks a far way away. 

[Humpty 184]

17 minutes ago, Borodane said:

You don't resign Johnson in the first place, Dijksteel plays RB with Spence as backup while he matures and Coulson is backup to both LB and LW while Bola is in the same place as now - nowhere in the squad.

If you don't resign Johnson you're left with Coulson and Bola at left back niether of which are proven left backs at this level (nor is Johnson btw). Djikesteel hasn't convinced anyone that he's a capable right back at this level and the same goes for Spence, all the while you're waiting for Spence to mature. How does he mature if he's not playing?

[Brunners 2,169]

2 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I mean you're saying all this like were in a better position now. Were playing a midfielder in the back three, our wing backs (our only width) dont look to be up to the job and theres still zero creativity in the final third. 

I get your points, neither approach is perfect, but I prefer us to be a bit more adventurous instead of just accepting of the mediocrity. The bar has been set so damn low that were just accepting whatever were given now, grasping at any tiny little positive despite the fact that long term progress looks a far way away. 

I, personally, believe that we are in a better position moving forward with the 352, solely because the 433 would require not only the additions to the spine that he was always going to go for regardless, but a huge investment and influx in players to make it work at all.

The 352 works now, even if it does have its flaws. I'm not accepting of the mediocrity, I'm accepting of the financial state of where we are. IMO to make 433 work without starting to square peg / round hole players, you'd need 8-9 signings (including the spinal ones that, again, he was always going to make). For me there are too many risks involved in that.

What if you don't get the players in?
How much would they all cost, all told? We're not made of money.

Also as far as the CM playing in the back 3 goes, lets not pretend McNair hasn't played a lot of CB through his career, even before joining us. It's not like it's unknown that he can play there.