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The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 aka TURN DOWN FOR WHAT(more)


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1 minute ago, Neverbefore said:

Its all part of the one decision. We could have sacked karanka and put someone better in charge, making it the correct decision. As it happened we sacked karanka and put worse in charge with no plan on how to get back to the  same level. So it's the wrong decision no matter how you look at it.

It's a series of decisions. All of which have been wrong imo.

That has been consistent since Karanka left.

Recruitment down turn began in Jan in the Prem for players. Managerial appointments clearly evidence no short term or long term plan since Agnew.

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3 minutes ago, TheJew said:

but surely our post Karanka era shows it wasnt the right decision.

Yes but only with the benefit of hindsight, come on!

Look I think we share the same admiration for Aitor and what he done for us but even after acknowledging that the club let him down badly in the transfer market (both summer and winter) he'd simply backed himself into a corner with some outrageous public statements.

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1 minute ago, wilsoncgp said:

The problems of people clashing behind the scenes have remained? That's rubbish, isn't it?

Just because every big decision we've made since Karanka left have been mistakes does not mean the club sacking him was a mistake. With all the hindsight we have of the situation now, I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can possibly think a man who had broken down pretty much every relationship within and outside the club that he could have could possibly have gone into that summer and rejuvenated the squad and turned the ship around.

Karanka had to go. Agnew, Monk, Pulis, Woodgate, they have absolutely sod all to do with why it was the right decision to sack him.

there was infighting last season until Warnock came in.

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1 minute ago, TheJew said:

Apologies. But it doesn't change the main point...

Recruitment in January, not backing the manager. 

Replacing with Agnew (or anyone) post Jan when we had a manager with a quite exceptional record in the Championship.

 

 

It changes everything, it's a completely different situation.

People like to rewrite the history of our premier league season and make out like the first half of the season was a success and we were simply let down in the market in January but it was relegation form all season, 18 points for the first 19 games is 36 for the season and still 4 points adrift.

January was a second chance to rescue you it but we were never going to get the deals we needed in a January window. We needed at least 2 wingers and someone to replace Gaston. Practically a complete overhaul of attacking options minus Negredo.

 

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3 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

The problems of people clashing behind the scenes have remained? That's rubbish, isn't it?

Just because every big decision we've made since Karanka left have been mistakes does not mean the club sacking him was a mistake. With all the hindsight we have of the situation now, I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can possibly think a man who had broken down pretty much every relationship within and outside the club that he could have could possibly have gone into that summer and rejuvenated the squad and turned the ship around.

Karanka had to go. Agnew, Monk, Pulis, Woodgate, they have absolutely sod all to do with why it was the right decision to sack him.

Except there's no real evidence for this is there? 4 years later, not a single player who was at the club in those days is still here and none of them have had a single negative thing to say about aitor, in fact many have come out in support on various occasions. 

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1 minute ago, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

It changes everything, it's a completely different situation.

People like to rewrite the history of our premier league season and make out like the first half of the season was a success and we were simply let down in the market in January but it was relegation form all season, 18 points for the first 19 games is 36 for the season and still 4 points adrift.

January was a second chance to rescue you it but we were never going to get the deals we needed in a January window. We needed at least 2 wingers and someone to replace Gaston. Practically a complete overhaul of attacking options minus Negredo.

 

We did the previous january with de laet, rhodes and ramirez signed which pushed us over the finishing line, so thats rubbish really.

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39 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

We did the previous january with de laet, rhodes and ramirez signed which pushed us over the finishing line, so thats rubbish really.

It's massively different between small margins to improve a side who were already at the top of the league and rescuing an ineffective attack in the prem

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George Friend has just signed for Karanka. You know, the true professional, George Friend.

Regardless, the problem is the complete and continued ineptitude from within.

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1 minute ago, estonpidge said:

The real issue wasn't the sacking of Aitor, it was the failure to bring in a decent manager to replace him and prepare for the next season. (IMO)

Agree to an extent.

But, surely the time to replace him was prior to the January transfer window. Not after. Once that had passed, he remained the best bet for us bouncing back imo.

Too many times prior had we got managerial appointments wrong, although I have sympathy for Mowbray. Consequently, appointments after have been poor as well. Better the devil you know and all that.

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16 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Except there's no real evidence for this is there? 4 years later, not a single player who was at the club in those days is still here and none of them have had a single negative thing to say about aitor, in fact many have come out in support on various occasions. 

Like I said in my big post on this topic, I think it's pretty clear the players respected what he'd done for him. Most of them did, anyway. I think they, like us, never wanted to stop the positivity of what Aitor had built for this club.

But the fact is he had lost his nut, that positivity had gone. He had no control any more, everything became far too much for him and he was lashing out left, right and centre. No matter how much they loved and respected him for what he'd done to their careers and what they had been part of, I'm pretty sure they knew it had to end. Like I said, massive weight off their shoulders when he left.

Now none of that matters any more. No player bar apparently Downing is going to look back at those years under Karanka now and see anything but how great most of that time was. We all know he made so many of those players better. None of that makes sacking him the wrong decision because how they feel about the past now is almost certainly avoiding the subject of what he was like at his worst.

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15 minutes ago, TheJew said:

George Friend has just signed for Karanka. You know, the true professional, George Friend.

Regardless, the problem is the complete and continued ineptitude from within.

Which also falls in line with what I've said too, a lot of players never forgot what he did for them and given how long it's been since his sacking now, a lot of them would be more than happy to work with him again. Similarly there's a few reasons I feel like Karanka coming back now might not have been so tragic. But still that doesn't make sacking him a bad decision when we did. He's been more out of football than in it since and I think the break has probably been good for him. 

This isn't about hating on Aitor for me, simply looking at the situation at the time and calling it as it was. I didn't do that at the time, I think I was far too hung up on wanting things back the way they were at the height of Karanka's time in charge. It was a pipe dream, back then.

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I think there were serious errors that lead to the pressure on AK. 

Woody was given a send off then supposedly resigning without AK knowing.

The Downing and Rhodes transfers.

Agnew being appointed assistant.

The apparent split in the recruitment team.

Gibson saying we would be challenging for Europe or something along those lines in preseason pit unnecessary pressure and expectations on AK.

A poor summer transfer window where we spent a decent amount on players that weren't that good. 

I think all this and then a really really poor January window tipped AK over the edge and it was clear he either wanted backing or sacking. 

If I could I would have changed the events that led up to his sacking so we could bounce around for a few years but at the time in that situation it was right to let AK go.

Probably the last right decision the club has made until demoting Woody.

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  • Borodane changed the title to The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 (playing the Chuba?)

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