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The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 aka TURN DOWN FOR WHAT(more)


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35 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Who are Man City's leaders?

Man Utd weren't particularly successful while Robson was there.  Liverpool managed how many titles with Gerrard?  Zero.  Southgate won what in his career?  A couple of League Cups?  Were Chelsea successful because Terry was a leader or because they spent a Billion quid on some of the best players in the world?  England couldn't get near winning anything with Terry, Gerrard, Ferdinand etc and yet they would be regarded as natural leaders.

It's a massively overblown concept.  We weren't struggling this season because we lacked leadership on the field.  It was all about everything that had happened off the field.  We also didn't win 4 games out of 8 because we suddenly found some either.  We didn't get promoted because Leadbitter was playing for us, we got promoted because we built a decent side.  Leadbitter was a Boro player when we weren't particularly good as well.  Are we saying he didn't have these leadership skills but he suddenly developed them just at the point when we happened to get better?  It's looking for something because you believe it must be there, primarily because it keeps getting repeated. 

Do people really think that bad teams don't have leaders as well?  Norwich, Bournemouth and Watford as three recent examples?  In most groups, leadership occurs naturally, as people fit into whatever hierarchy exists.  Get good footballers, develop a solid plan and you will become a good team.

 

Instead of it being either good players or leaders, it could be good players and leaders, alongside good management and a whole other host of factors.

Leaders don’t guarantee success, nor does having talented players. But leadership is one piece of a much larger puzzle. A piece we are currently lacking by all accounts. 

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

Not the five defeats though?

Nope he had 5 off days .. 

Come on, Mr. Opposite .. It's not that black and white and you cannot win'em all .. But in at least 2 of those wins Friend played a big role, also if you do not agree, he still did .. 😉

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12 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Three FA Cups and a European Cup Winners cup for a club their size is next to nothing.  It was a decade of underperformance, which his leadership couldn't do anything about.

Yeah, if it wasn't for Keane those players wouldn't have amounted to anything 🙄  Scholes was a leader? 🙂

That's a convenient explanation for Man City but not one based in reality.  They have a squad of players none of whom would be called leaders in the way that people are discussing it here.  Being confident in your ability has nothing to do with leadership neither does being confident in someone else's ability.

All teams have 'leaders'.  Some teams are good and some teams are bad regardless of it though.

Ederson, Walker, De Bruyne and Mendy are their current leaders. Before that it was Kompany and Yaya Toure. Steven Gerrard was instrumental in them winning the 2005 Champions League final purely down to his leadership 

Cant actually believe that you believe what your posting. 
I made a lengthy post regarding what I think leadership is and it’s not alway the shouty Roy Keane type there’s loadsa different styles and having some leaders is absolutely necessary imo

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6 minutes ago, SmogDane said:

Nope he had 5 off days .. 

Come on, Mr. Opposite .. It's not that black and white and you cannot win'em all .. But in at least 2 of those wins Friend played a big role, also if you do not agree, he still did .. 😉

He played a big role in all 9 games, that's the point.  You're the one looking at it in black and white.  The good things that happened are because Friend played a big role.  The bad things that happened just happened because they did.  It's nonsense, sorry, but it is.

 

10 minutes ago, RealSlimSladeyy said:

Instead of it being either good players or leaders, it could be good players and leaders, alongside good management and a whole other host of factors.

Leaders don’t guarantee success, nor does having talented players. But leadership is one piece of a much larger puzzle. A piece we are currently lacking by all accounts. 

Well yeah, lots of factors, but the single biggest one is having good players.

Whose accounts?  Warnocks presumably? What are the three things that just about every new manager says when they arrive especially during the season?  The team isn't fit enough, the team isn't organised and the team lacks leadership.  It's like a standard comment.

Do people really believe that the likes of Randolph, Ayala, Howson, Saville, Clayton, Friend, don't have some of these qualities?  Yet it didn't make a difference this season, did it?  I guess we'll have to assume that one of Flint or Downing must have been the glue holding the squad together last season, and their departures created a vacuum that nobody could fill 🤨

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10 minutes ago, Uwe said:

Ederson, Walker, De Bruyne and Mendy are their current leaders. Before that it was Kompany and Yaya Toure. Steven Gerrard was instrumental in them winning the 2005 Champions League final purely down to his leadership 

Cant actually believe that you believe what your posting. 
I made a lengthy post regarding what I think leadership is and it’s not alway the shouty Roy Keane type there’s loadsa different styles and having some leaders is absolutely necessary imo

So Gerrard's leadership was instrumental in them winning the 2005 Champions League final.  Fair enough.  What about winning a Premier League title?  I assume his leadership existed for more than one game so why weren't they successful in the league?  I can remember Liverpool being a relatively poor side (for them) and he was their captain so how influential was he in reality?  Is Henderson a better leader than Gerrard seeing as how they've just stormed to the title?  Or do Liverpool just have a better side now, with a better manager?

In what sense are those Man City players leaders?  You're just plucking names out of thin air to suit your argument.  I'd maybe give you Walker as a communicator but not the rest.  De Bruyne is a brilliant footballer and huge influence during a game, but that's down to his ability, not his leadership.

There are loads of different styles of leadership, but Boro, somehow, have absolutely none.  Okey dokey.

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I would say that if you have a group of players who are so well drilled and mature that they know exactly what they should do in every situation, the team can be perfectly successful even without specific leaders.

 
if you have a group of youngsters, especially those drilled by Woodgate and Keane, you need people on the pitch who can keep them doing what they should do and help out when they don’t. 

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I think the PL players mentioned in this post as leaders all have one thing in common they where all outstanding footballers, but they also had good players around them, so CT makes an excellent point.Can you win games with no leader and good players absolutely, can you win matches  with a leader on the pitch and poor players very unlikely. The point can be made about leadership but its good players who win you games that's why Liverpool are champions because of the superb quality in the squad.

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15 minutes ago, estonpidge said:

Maybe they should be called organiser rather than leader, Semantics i know but we need voices on the pitch to sort out this shower of ........

I would say that we need voices off the pitch to sort them out if anything.

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2 minutes ago, KeithLambsFaxMachine said:

I would say that if you have a group of players who are so well drilled and mature that they know exactly what they should do in every situation, the team can be perfectly successful even without specific leaders.

 
if you have a group of youngsters, especially those drilled by Woodgate and Keane, you need people on the pitch who can keep them doing what they should do and help out when they don’t. 

That to me is what I see in Manchester City.  An excellent group of players who are well drilled and know exactly what is expected of them.  I don't see a team filled with specific leaders there.

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I think theres an argument for both. I do think leaders are important in a team. Just look at Arsenal they had Adams and Vieira during a successful era and since they left Arsenal haven't challenged. 

I never quite understood what Henderson does but at the last World cup when he went off vs Croatia we completely lost it in midfield. I think i saw Liverpool this season in the games they lost Henderson only played in one of them. 

The other thing you need to factor in is all teams cant win all the trophies.

However during that period Gerrard was at Liverpool, Chelsea had Terry and Lampard, United Rooney Ferdinand Neville and Vidic and Liverpool had Gerrard and City had Kompany. All had successes during this period and dominated English football. Of course the quality of player helps massively but I do think there's still a big place to have a leader/leaders in your team.

 

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  • Borodane changed the title to The Summer/Autumn transfers thread 2020 (playing the Chuba?)

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