Jump to content
oneBoro Forum

Neil Warnock, Steve Gibson & Long Term Vision?


Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Will said:

Not sure judging them on Huddersfield is fair, they were brought in to keep them up, they did it, then they were thrown on the dump because the chairman didn't actually want to play that way. 

If you want to judge them on their succes you'll also have to look at where they failed. I've read good and bad things about their time at Huddersfield. Huddersfield were in dire shape when they came in but it was still a team that had played in the prem in the prior season so it wasn't a horrible squad. I suppose I'm just a bit cautious about getting someone who's only been a succes at lower league and isn't exactly wanted men. They've been without a job for a while and their latest link was to Wimbledon who are battling against relegation in League 1. Looks like a huge risk to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 636
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  •  

    62

  •  

    46

  •  

    33

  •  

    32

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

As it's looking a virtual certainty that Warnock is going to get the job for next season, it's worth noting both the significant positives and negatives that will result from Warnock being our manager

👀Thanks for the invite, really appreciate it.

The Evening Gazette has said that Steve Gibson is against a director of football because it would add another 6 figure salary onto the wage bill. I can't help but question whether that is the true mot

Posted Images

21 minutes ago, Smokedsalmon said:

Warnock and his coaching staff should be nowhere near our long-term planning.

You cannot have your footballing philosophy in the year of our lord 2021 anno domini be to kick the wee round thing into the channels and cross cross cross. It just won't get us anywhere.

Warnock as director of football? No ta. We would constantly be bringing in "big strong strikers" and "hard working midfielders" and "centre backs who can score off a corner" rather than football players, which is the primary reason we're in the situation we are in now.

Answer for me is easy; German coach. German style. High line, counter-press, wide overlaps and rotational movement up top. That's how football teams succeed these days. Tactical innovation, sports science, not just the age-old platitudes of "we need to work a bit harder" or "the ball just didn't drop for us".

Unfortunately, this is all just a pipe dream for me and I am 99% confident we will hire another English journeyman after Warnock. Wouldn't trust Gibson to run my bath at this point.

Hmm...you don't fancy a place on the Boro board, do you? Or a place on the coaching staff (after reading your post on overlapping wide players).

Heck, apply for the manager's job once Warnock decides he's had enough.

I'm all for innovation.

While no manager or system is guaranteed to succeed, its got to improve our chances if we have people who at least try to innovate and think differently, versus managers that try to use the same tactics, regardless of the players available to them.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Borodane said:

If you want to judge them on their succes you'll also have to look at where they failed. I've read good and bad things about their time at Huddersfield. Huddersfield were in dire shape when they came in but it was still a team that had played in the prem in the prior season so it wasn't a horrible squad. I suppose I'm just a bit cautious about getting someone who's only been a succes at lower league and isn't exactly wanted men. They've been without a job for a while and their latest link was to Wimbledon who are battling against relegation in League 1. Looks like a huge risk to me.

That's fair, I'm just saying from the outside looking in I'm not sure they were given a fair shot at Huddersfield and seemed to get used a bit by their owner who moved on as soon as they were secure in the league. Probably worth noting I'd only be interested in them on the proviso that Warnock retains some kind of advisory role to help guide them. With an experienced head helping them I think they'd have a good chance of succeeding here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I would go for Paul Warne at Rotherham, quietly understated but with a great man management ethos, currently overachieving with what he has at his disposal. If the Warnock era continues I think he could work fine with NW upstairs in a DOF role alongside Blackwell and Jepson whilst bringing a little modernity and freshness to things.

I don't think financially the club (or indeed many clubs outside of the Premiership) can afford a radical overhaul in the short to medium term, that same pragmatism applies to business and industry in general across the board. I get that Warnock isn't the most exciting or innovative Coach but I think it's time for evolution rather than another revolution and a squad filled with square pegs for round holes and expensive square pegs at that. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Would love us to look abroad again. If you want an idea of there the success of English managers at the moment, there are currently 8 managing in the premier league. The bottom 7 clubs are all managed by an English man. 

Obviously there are exceptions and it doesn't necessarily mean it is the same for every English manager but there does seem to be a little bit of a pattern happening when you look at the highest level. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Would love us to look abroad again. If you want an idea of there the success of English managers at the moment, there are currently 8 managing in the premier league. The bottom 7 clubs are all managed by an English man. 

Obviously there are exceptions and it doesn't necessarily mean it is the same for every English manager but there does seem to be a little bit of a pattern happening when you look at the highest level. 

Whilst true, are these clubs in a position different to what you would expect? Maybe you'd expect Leeds to be in the bottom 7 having just been promoted and a club the size of Newcastle probably shouldn't be, but other than them two I'd say you expect the others are in the bottom 7 because they are among the worst 7 teams in the league.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Will said:

Whilst true, are these clubs in a position different to what you would expect? Maybe you'd expect Leeds to be in the bottom 7 having just been promoted and a club the size of Newcastle probably shouldn't be, but other than them two I'd say you expect the others are in the bottom 7 because they are among the worst 7 teams in the league.

Yeah it's a factor of course. But then that's also a sign of the bigger clubs avoiding English managers where possible and you'd have to question why that is - particularly when it seems like it's yielding results for them. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Would love us to look abroad again. If you want an idea of there the success of English managers at the moment, there are currently 8 managing in the premier league. The bottom 7 clubs are all managed by an English man. 

Obviously there are exceptions and it doesn't necessarily mean it is the same for every English manager but there does seem to be a little bit of a pattern happening when you look at the highest level. 

For a long time there has certainly been a much bigger emphasis on educating coaches and managers in Germany compared to England. It seems that in England the main qualification is that you have been a top player. Then you're almost guaranteed a job if you want while in Germany you have to actually earn your spot. The succesful english managers are few and far between.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we should just take a look at Bodøs manager in Norway. 26 wins in 30 games last season and 103 goals scored. Crazy stats 🙂 Poor league though and at 52 years old it might just be a one off.

Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I don't think financially the club (or indeed many clubs outside of the Premiership) can afford a radical overhaul in the short to medium term, that same pragmatism applies to business and industry in general across the board. I get that Warnock isn't the most exciting or innovative Coach but I think it's time for evolution rather than another revolution and a squad filled with square pegs for round holes and expensive square pegs at that.

This and the fact that Warnock has 40+ years as a manager are for me the only real reasons for keeping him past this season. I could understand the logic in bringing him in at the end of last season, purely in an effort to keep us up. At that stage I would have looked elsewhere, but actually keeping him for this season makes sense to me now too. It offers us stability in terms of no squad overhaul and he is experienced enough to work with what he has (Despite the 3 signings on deadline day), all in the midst of a global pandemic and very tight financial constraints.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

Well, given Boro's manager history, its pretty likely Warnock's successor will be completely different.

I'd disagree with your middle paragraph. I think its usually unavoidable that when a new manager comes in, it signals an "all change" approach. Or to put it another way, its very rare for a new manager to come into any club and for the transition to be seamless, with no drastic changes. Its just a fact of footballing life.

Thats why its so important to make sure you make good appointments in managerial & coaching staff, to enable a period of stability & continuity.

If you're a club like Chelsea or Real Madrid and can simply throw unlimited amounts of money around, then its obviously less of an issue. Some clubs do indeed make a habit of changing managers every couple of years...but most aren't in a position to do that.

Regarding "implementing systems that work" - I think thats rather chasing the impossible in the long term. Football, like anything else, evolves over time and things that may be successful for a few years, may no longer be effective a few years later.

Even the best managers can find this out. Look at Wenger's last few years at Arsenal and Mourinho's last spell at Chelsea, his tenure at Man Utd and Spurs' inconsistency.

Ultimately you just need to be able to look at other teams who are successful and either see if you can replicate their methods, or else find a counter to them.

 

I don't really understand where you're coming from here, mate.  Good appointments in managerial and coaching staffs won't lead to stability and continuity if they are going to make drastic changes anyway.  The whole point I was making is that you appoint people who aren't going to make drastic changes because they already 'fit' into what you do as a club.  That you have a set philosophy and you only hire people who will work within that, precisely to avoid what we've often done here.  Systems that work isn't chasing the impossible - this is one of the reason's that football is such a poorly run industry because people keep trying to make out that it's special in some way, when it isn't.  The football you see on the park might evolve but that doesn't mean that the things behind the scenes change massively every few years.  I'm talking about youth development, recruitment and things like that, the general things, common to pretty much all clubs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

 It offers us stability in terms of no squad overhaul and he is experienced enough to work with what he has (Despite the 3 signings on deadline day), all in the midst of a global pandemic and very tight financial constraints.

There has still been a good influx of players. I know a lot was needed due to our squad size but we have still spent on transfers and loan fees.


Bett, Archer, Hall, Fischer, Morsy, Kebano, Watmore, Bolasie, Roberts and Akpom.

5 of those probably won’t be with us next season (1 definitely won’t)

Link to post
Share on other sites

What a depressing read this thread is 😩

Let's build a future around Warnock and his beliefs?  Let's aspire to be like Burnley? 

Warnock has never managed to keep a team in the Premier League or top flight for more than one season.  Why would anyone think that's the thing to build our future on?  Do some of you watch games and then instantly forget them, because I read the match threads and it's full of people *** and moaning about what they are watching, then a couple of days after it's like it never happened, and people see Warnock as being our future.  He shouldn't be anywhere near it, as Smokedsalmon said.  There is absolutely no long term benefit to anything he's done anywhere as far as I can tell but let's give him another year or make him DoF anyway?  It's absolutely bonkers, it's almost like giving up on any ambition whatsoever.

As for Burnley, they've had a nice little run for a few seasons, but why would be look to them as an example rather than say Leicester?  I'd say our club is more similar to them than Burnley in terms of size, history and such?

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

What a depressing read this thread is 😩

Let's build a future around Warnock and his beliefs?  Let's aspire to be like Burnley? 

Warnock has never managed to keep a team in the Premier League or top flight for more than one season.  Why would anyone think that's the thing to build our future on?  Do some of you watch games and then instantly forget them, because I read the match threads and it's full of people *** and moaning about what they are watching, then a couple of days after it's like it never happened, and people see Warnock as being our future.  He shouldn't be anywhere near it, as Smokedsalmon said.  There is absolutely no long term benefit to anything he's done anywhere as far as I can tell but let's give him another year or make him DoF anyway?  It's absolutely bonkers, it's almost like giving up on any ambition whatsoever.

As for Burnley, they've had a nice little run for a few seasons, but why would be look to them as an example rather than say Leicester?  I'd say our club is more similar to them than Burnley in terms of size, history and such?

Or wolves, villa, west ham, Leeds, Southampton, even Brighton who all play good football and were in our position within the last 7 or 8 years. I swear it drives me insane when people try to suggest the only way a club our size can get to where we want to go by playing dour football and trying our best not to concede every game.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...