Neil Warnock, Steve Gibson & Long Term Vision?

[DanFromDownSouth 1,706]

22 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

The previous windows were under completely different circumstances.  If we're spending that kind of money now, even for just one season loan deals, then we are clearly not operating under the kind of limited budget people seem to be inferring.

Of course they were under different circumstances. But equally we've not spent close to anything like we did under Monk or Pulis, so quite clearly we are under a limited budget. We brought in 11 players, 3 of which were on free transfers, we've signed 3 players for fees (2 for very low fees Morsy and Fisher) and we've signed 5 loan players, 1 of which was replaced with another loanee.

[DanFromDownSouth 1,706]

32 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I'm not really fussed about breaching it, if that's what's required to achieve our goals.  I don't have much time for FFP though.

Think Gibson might disagree with you on that front!

[Redcar Rioja 5,976]

49 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I'm not really fussed about breaching it, if that's what's required to achieve our goals.  I don't have much time for FFP though.

Neither does Mel from Derby or Dejphon from Sheffield (allegedly) 😉

 

[DanFromDownSouth 1,706]

5 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Neither does Mel from Derby or Dejphon from Sheffield (allegedly) 😉

 

Maybe CT isn't Vickers but he's Mel Morris? 😮

[Changing Times 12,347]

1 hour ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Of course they were under different circumstances. But equally we've not spent close to anything like we did under Monk or Pulis, so quite clearly we are under a limited budget. We brought in 11 players, 3 of which were on free transfers, we've signed 3 players for fees (2 for very low fees Morsy and Fisher) and we've signed 5 loan players, 1 of which was replaced with another loanee.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about relative to other teams in the division, not comparing ourselves to when we had an extra £40m of income.  Free transfers mean nothing if you're spending decent amounts on wages, which we probably will be for at least one of them.  The wages we've spent on all of those signings will be substantial, and that's what I'm talking about.

[Redcar Rioja 5,976]

57 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Maybe CT isn't Vickers but he's Mel Morris? 😮

That would maybe explain a lot 🤣

[Changing Times 12,347]

1 hour ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Think Gibson might disagree with you on that front!

I imagine that Gibson and I would disagree on quite a few things.  People should be free to spend whatever they like on companies they own.  It's the regulation surrounding ownership that needs to change, not using FFP, which really just hands an advantage to clubs who are already established at the top table.

[DanFromDownSouth 1,706]

3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Sorry, I thought we were talking about relative to other teams in the division, not comparing ourselves to when we had an extra £40m of income.  Free transfers mean nothing if you're spending decent amounts on wages, which we probably will be for at least one of them.  The wages we've spent on all of those signings will be substantial, and that's what I'm talking about.

Yeah I was comparing what Warnock has spent compared to our previous managers, not other teams. Going from having an extra £40m income to not is then going to restrict our budget.

In isolation those 3 free transfers and loans will look like we have increased spending (which we have), but in context with a wider view our spending has decreased when you factor in who we've sold and released etc in the past season.

[DanFromDownSouth 1,706]

7 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I imagine that Gibson and I would disagree on quite a few things.  People should be free to spend whatever they like on companies they own.  It's the regulation surrounding ownership that needs to change, not using FFP, which really just hands an advantage to clubs who are already established at the top table.

I like the idea of what FFP is trying to do, but it is executed pretty poorly. Agree that the ownership rules are bordering on farcical, you only have to look at the whole Wigan debacle to see that.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

17 hours ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Think Gibson might disagree with you on that front!

I think the club has enough problems as it is. We definitely don't need docking 12 points as well (bet we wouldn't get it halved on appeal either).

 

[Borodane 6,301]

We need to change the deep belief that exists within the club that clean sheets win games and not goals scored. For years on end we've tried to win games by keeping the oppostition from scoring instead of actually trying to score ourselves. It runs so deep that a lot of people think that Warnock is the future. He came in to act as a firefighter in a very difficult situation and he should be applauded for that, but let's not think that he should be the future of the club. And I have no idea why he should be a DoF. It's not like he unearths gems and special players on a regular basis. If he is installed as a DoF we need a manager that plays his tactics ie. defenders that can punt it long, grafters in the middle, a big target man and two quick wingers to pick up the pieces and second balls. I'd rather that isn't a route we go down.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

15 hours ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

I like the idea of what FFP is trying to do, but it is executed pretty poorly. Agree that the ownership rules are bordering on farcical, you only have to look at the whole Wigan debacle to see that.

I think the problem is that all these rules and regulations are put in place, but then nobody really tries to enforce them. They just lets clubs police themselves and its only when things get out of hand that any action is taken.

Maybe if the FA appointed an independent auditor to go over clubs' accounts and had similar third-party oversight whenever a club is put up for sale?

On the face of it, it seems like taking a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, as by and large clubs do seem to be adequately run, but whenever a club does actually go to the wall, or when financial / regulatory breaches are uncovered, it does make you wonder if more may be bending the rules.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

16 hours ago, Changing Times said:

I imagine that Gibson and I would disagree on quite a few things.  People should be free to spend whatever they like on companies they own.  It's the regulation surrounding ownership that needs to change, not using FFP, which really just hands an advantage to clubs who are already established at the top table.

This works in normal circumstances, but not in a sporting context. Allowing clubs to spend what they like just creates a horribly uneven playing field where the richest clubs dominate.

The Premier League has become rather more interesting since FFP was introduced. Sure it still often boils down to a 2-horse race, but at least the horses seem to change more often now.

Even F1 has recognised this and is introducing spending caps, because allowing teams like Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull to spend what they like has created an incredibly dull, uncompetitive sport.

 

 

[Uwe 3,545]

5 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

This works in normal circumstances, but not in a sporting context. Allowing clubs to spend what they like just creates a horribly uneven playing field where the richest clubs dominate.

The Premier League has become rather more interesting since FFP was introduced. Sure it still often boils down to a 2-horse race, but at least the horses seem to change more often now.

Even F1 has recognised this and is introducing spending caps, because allowing teams like Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull to spend what they like has created an incredibly dull, uncompetitive sport.

 

 

It might be a unpopular opinion but I think F1 is dull as dishwater. The best car wins, there should only be one car type and then it’s all down to the driver

[Snake 45]

21 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

This works in normal circumstances, but not in a sporting context. Allowing clubs to spend what they like just creates a horribly uneven playing field where the richest clubs dominate.

The Premier League has become rather more interesting since FFP was introduced. Sure it still often boils down to a 2-horse race, but at least the horses seem to change more often now.

Even F1 has recognised this and is introducing spending caps, because allowing teams like Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull to spend what they like has created an incredibly dull, uncompetitive sport.

 

 

Allowing Mercedes to use a development (DAS) that nobody else could was a major factor last season.

George Russell (the Mercedes team intern) dominating in the single drive he had just showed how much the car itself contributes.

Hamilton sharp recovered from his Covid when he saw that!