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Neil Warnock, Steve Gibson & Long Term Vision?


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As it's looking a virtual certainty that Warnock is going to get the job for next season, it's worth noting both the significant positives and negatives that will result from Warnock being our manager

The Evening Gazette has said that Steve Gibson is against a director of football because it would add another 6 figure salary onto the wage bill. I can't help but question whether that is the true mot

👀Thanks for the invite, really appreciate it.

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Getting back on topic, I wonder whether discussions have already taken place between Warnock and Gibson about next season? It's too early to tell how this campaign will pan out, but Warnock's comment about looking for a striker in the summer suggests he thinks he'll be here in August as manager (rather than in some nebulous DoF role).

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34 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

Getting back on topic, I wonder whether discussions have already taken place between Warnock and Gibson about next season? It's too early to tell how this campaign will pan out, but Warnock's comment about looking for a striker in the summer suggests he thinks he'll be here in August as manager (rather than in some nebulous DoF role).

I think Warnock has been and is planning as if he was staying on. Even in the Jan transfer window he talked about looking at deals in the summer.

It could however be just good stewardship so that if he does stay he isn’t starting from zero.

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5 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

Well in order to get support for a cause, you have to make people sympathetic towards you.

I'm not sure how you expect to achieve that by *** people off and generally messing up their daily lives...which is largely all Extinction Rebellion did.

When you get people willing to put their own (and potentially other peoples') lives at risk like that lunatic who climbed on the roof of a tube train, as well as spreading blatantly inaccurate scaremongering stories that fly in the face of established facts, all you're doing is undermining any sympathy and support for a very important and worthwhile cause.

In effect they did way more harm than good.

What they should have done was target governments directly (and stuck to the truth), not unlike how Greta Thunberg did. Instead their actions came off as annoying, infantile, half-arsed virtue signalling.

 

All you've said there matches what I've said to begin with. Some people are more bothered about what they do than why they do it. This isn't even just a big political issue that needs tackling. We're talking about the survival and continued existence of our species and you've boiled it down to sympathy for a cause? Like hey, come on, if you want your descendents to actually exist and survive then stop being an ass about it and we'll deal with it like adults. Until then you can sit on the naughty step.

Extinction Rebellion aren't the only people tackling the climate issue. This is a multi-faceted global issue that is being tackled by all kinds of lobbyists and has been for a long time. And yet after all this time of tackling it and trying to raise it as an extreme issue, still we are told we may be reaching a point of no return and without significant change we will be heading for global disaster. We may already have passed that point according to some. This issue specifically isn't anything to do with sympathy any more, the facts point us in one direction and not tackling that is ignorance. So yeah, lack of sympathy towards them and their specific aims may be ER's fault but ignorance of science is nothing to do with them and in that respect, they have everything to gain.

In the weeks following ER protests, our MPs finally passed a motion declaring a climate emergency. I'm not convinced personally that's enough, nor that what our government promises to achieve is enough but it was in some part an acknowledgement of them and their reason for existence. And hey, it's not like history stands entirely against them in terms of extreme protests achieving goals. Avoiding a global extinction event is one thing but similar protests helped women get the vote, for example. And yeah, some people thought they were idiots, people from all sides of the debate including those fighting for the vote themselves. But it would be inaccurate to portray the Suffragettes as ineffective or worse, working against the fight for the right to vote.

To RA's point, there is a difference between extreme problems and the extreme reactions to it. Of course there is. But through inaction or worse, negative action towards an issue, extremism can and will be born. With both the climate emergency and the issues BLM tried to tackle, there has been both inaction and/or negative action. Events like the death of George Floyd are the straw that broke the camel's back as opposed to a one off that lead to the fight against racism going from 0 to 150mph in a few seconds.

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Why do we think we have a right for continuous existence of our species? Many people believe we are the most self serving and destructive parasite ever to grace this rock of ours. I’m not religious so I don’t believe that I’m moving on to some eternal existence after I’m dust in this place. Maybe that’s humans life cycle to be around for a few thousand years and die out and the planet moves on. 

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14 hours ago, TLF10 said:

I am not sure if this the right place to make this comment and apologies if its been said before but it does appear increasingly likely NW will be here next season and I look out for little hints in what he says.

Today during press conference when asked about if he worried about Fletcher wanting to wait until end of season before deciding if he signs new deal Warnock said “i am not worried at all. I will find a replacement for him. I will be looking to sign a new striker anyway”

This fills me with dread. I'm very worried when his last signing was Akpom who is a League 1 player at best. I dread to think who he will throw money after next.

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In an ideal world if we don't get promoted, I'd like us to move on from Warnock.

If we looked to bring someone in like Eddie Howe (Not saying specifically Howe), an experienced head coach. I'd want them to be able to work with the players we currently have (contracted past this season), be able to lay foundations for a longer term style of thinking and I'd want them to be afforded some time to do that. Then once they moved on after a few years bring someone in that can replace them with a similar play style so that we don't have to start from scratch in terms of assembling a squad and the off field/backroom stuff. 

If we went down the route of a less experienced manager (Woodgate esc), I'd of course still want the same things as above, but I could see the need or pragmatism of keeping Warnock around in a coaching/advisor capacity for a year or two. We've seen when going down the route of picking an inexperienced manager (with an inexperienced backroom staff) and asking them to overhaul the club, how costly it can be potentially end up (last season is a prime example). But there is an obvious example (Karanka) where picking an inexperienced manager and letting them build a backroom staff and squad has worked wonders.

I think whatever happens when Warnock goes (either this season or next), we have a real opportunity to really push forwards as a club, the squads core in my opinion is good the defence more so than most other areas. Plus come the summer we don't really have any "high" earners left over from our recent seasons of ridiculous spending, so there are some really solid building blocks that can built upon and improved.

We have to get the next appointment spot on (how often have we said that in recent seasons).

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13 hours ago, Snake said:

How long did it take you to come up with that hardly reasoned argument?

Make stupid argument, try to critique opposing argument. It's going well for you mate.

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8 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

All you've said there matches what I've said to begin with. Some people are more bothered about what they do than why they do it. This isn't even just a big political issue that needs tackling. We're talking about the survival and continued existence of our species and you've boiled it down to sympathy for a cause? Like hey, come on, if you want your descendents to actually exist and survive then stop being an ass about it and we'll deal with it like adults. Until then you can sit on the naughty step.

Congrats on completely missing the point...and also being wrong.

You're partly right - ultimately its a question of our survival as a species. Which ultimately comes down to the political will of those in power to take the right course of action. Slowing / reversing climate change requires a global effort and co-operation between all the major nations (those responsible for the pollution & other damage anyway) to change their harmful practices.

"We the people" have relatively limited means of making this happen ourselves. Individually, we can "do our bit" to minimise our own impacts and collectively we can protest and demand action from our governments.

However, those protests have to be effectively targeted and conducted in order to do any good.

What ER did was to mess up people's daily lives, commit various acts of vandalism (seriously - how the *** is digging up public gardens supposed to generate sympathy?) and either deliberately, or through their own ignorance, spread misinformation.

While ultimately its down to the world's governments to tackle climate change, they can be spurred into action if there is enough public pressure.

Like it or not, people don't respond well to having their lives messed up, or witnessing acts of vandalism and better-informed people will spot misinformation, therefore dismiss groups like ER as idiots.

Call it a flaw in the human condition - god knows we have enough of those - but for movements to garner support & generate momentum, they need to be well co-ordinated, apply pressure in the right areas and be seen to be morally correct.

Particularly in times like these when many people are struggling just to live from day to day. We all know theres a major problem, but when you're trying to look after a family, even that can fade into the background.

Eco-terrorism...even if the cause is right...will simply never grab peoples' hearts and minds. At least not beyond the juvenile, ill-informed anti-establishment types.

While I don't claim to know what an effective course of action would be (maybe storming the upcoming summit in Glasgow?) I do know that stunts like ER pulled aren't the way to go.

 

Edited by AnglianRed
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1 hour ago, Uwe said:

Why do we think we have a right for continuous existence of our species? Many people believe we are the most self serving and destructive parasite ever to grace this rock of ours. I’m not religious so I don’t believe that I’m moving on to some eternal existence after I’m dust in this place. Maybe that’s humans life cycle to be around for a few thousand years and die out and the planet moves on. 

Technically we are the most self-serving and destructive species ever to grace this planet. ☹️

I'm pretty sure that unless we do drastically change our behaviour, we will go the same way as the dinosaurs (and the planet will be better off for it).

Though I'm still somewhat optimistic that we'll develop both the technology and political will to deploy it, on a large enough scale, in time to avoid utterly ruining the planet (dealing with the planet's natural heating & cooling cycles will be another matter).

Failing that, we just have to hope mass space travel becomes viable in time to allow us to colonise other planets.

 

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1 minute ago, AnglianRed said:

Indeed.

How did we get from Warnock, Gibson and the Long Term Vision to racism and climate change? 

confused computer GIF

 

Derailing is this forums speciality 🙂

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