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Neil Warnock, Steve Gibson & Long Term Vision?


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12 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Yeah, I can understand how that might be a similar thing to this. And maybe we've already seen that with the introduction and shortly later the exit of Adrian Bevington?

I'd still say his credentials for that role were very much in question and there's enough to consider there that might show he wasn't the right man for the job. But it's that he left and nobody else came in that perhaps speaks louder than the fact someone of his individual experiences was there to begin with.

I can't understand why Bevington was considered for the role other than he was yet another local lad and therein lies another problem with the Club's mentality. 

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As it's looking a virtual certainty that Warnock is going to get the job for next season, it's worth noting both the significant positives and negatives that will result from Warnock being our manager

👀Thanks for the invite, really appreciate it.

The Evening Gazette has said that Steve Gibson is against a director of football because it would add another 6 figure salary onto the wage bill. I can't help but question whether that is the true mot

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On 4/12/2021 at 10:03 PM, p_mards said:

A very good article on Stuart Webber. He's completely out of our league but we have desperately needed someone like him for well over a decade. Whenever Warnock leaves we need to have a complete restructure by appointing someone like Webber to transition us into an efficient, forward-thinking club:

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/stuart-webber-norwich-city-four-year-anniversary-7875060

Very good article. 2 key things standout for me.

The first, "A willingness to swim against the current and break conventions" that sums up just about everything for me. Just because something has been done a certain way for years doesn't mean it has to keep being done that way. (Also that quote is basically what the Moneyball theory is, not buying low selling high, so that pleases me massively).

Then the 2nd is all about their promotion to Premier League, "City did get their recruitment wrong. Webber admitted to sending Farke 'into war without a gun' but as they crashed out of the Premier League with 10 straight defeats, he kept faith in his methods when many would have been tempted to rip them up and start again". Keeping faith with the process, sticking to it and reaping longer term rewards down the line.

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I’m not sure if anyone has listened to the boro breakdown podcast with Craig Liddle yet btw. He seems like a nice bloke and deffo a good egg for the club and the youngsters underneath him. 
 

Quite worrying though to me is how when asked about “the philosophy and ethos which run up and down the club”, Liddle wasn’t sure if that’s the way that the club is heading. He also seemed to suggest that he wouldn’t think we would adopt a head coach route, like other teams have. 
 

But it is worrying to me how we don’t have that thread running down from top to bottom and I question why that isn’t in place. I’m not knocking Craig at all, I think by the players that are coming through, he is doing a good job. But it would be nice to see us have that “golden thread” running through. 
 

Mentioning the golden thread, if that’s not what we’re doing, at a younger level to bring players in to fit a style and formation of football, why was it hyped up so much? 

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2 hours ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

@p_mardsNot sure if you've seen this article all about Webber? 

It was written in the aftermath of their relegation last season.

https://trainingground.guru/articles/stuart-webber-collapse-of-the-canaries-is-not-all-it-seems

It's an excellent article. Everything about him is exactly what we lack. Unfortunately we're stuck in the 1990's and there's no way that Gibson will never delegate his decision-making power to a Sporting Director like Webber.

Webber handled relegation incredibly well by keeping to his core principles, having faith in Daniel Farke, retaining the core of the squad that won promotion in the previous season, and doing some shrewd transfer business to freshen up the squad. Contrast that with the absolute chaos of how Gibson handled relegation: sacking Karanka and Orta, appointing Monk and allow him to waste £100+ million in fees and long-term contracts, sack him, attempt to sue him and then appoint Tony Pulis!

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1 hour ago, ManBearPig said:

I’m not sure if anyone has listened to the boro breakdown podcast with Craig Liddle yet btw. He seems like a nice bloke and deffo a good egg for the club and the youngsters underneath him. 
 

Quite worrying though to me is how when asked about “the philosophy and ethos which run up and down the club”, Liddle wasn’t sure if that’s the way that the club is heading. He also seemed to suggest that he wouldn’t think we would adopt a head coach route, like other teams have. 
 

But it is worrying to me how we don’t have that thread running down from top to bottom and I question why that isn’t in place. I’m not knocking Craig at all, I think by the players that are coming through, he is doing a good job. But it would be nice to see us have that “golden thread” running through. 
 

Mentioning the golden thread, if that’s not what we’re doing, at a younger level to bring players in to fit a style and formation of football, why was it hyped up so much? 

We're a disjointed mess behind the scenes. It's such a shame that Gibson cannot see his own glaringly obvious shortcomings.

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49 minutes ago, p_mards said:

We're a disjointed mess behind the scenes. It's such a shame that Gibson cannot see his own glaringly obvious shortcomings.

I used to think very highly of Gibson. Yes he puts a hell of a lot of money into the club, but he is just *** his money away with all these short term and backwards steps. He is how football used to be run. Our only recent bit of success was when Orta came in and the footballing decisions were taken out of his control? 
 

We took a gamble on Karanka and he brought a good restructuring and professionalism to the club. When it was going well people were waxing lyrical about how he transformed us into that. All the success he had has now been eroded. 
 

We appointed Agnew and waved the white flag. 
We appointed Monk, let him spend big and didn’t really have a tactical blue print. 
We then appoint Pulis and I think he was buoyed with Bamford, Adama and Gibson. Who were then sold. 
We then appoint rookie woodgate who nearly relegated us, but again, did we have a tactical blue print? Maybe for about 45 mins vs Luton. 
then we have Warnock and his hoof ball heroes. I mean when you read it all back like that it really is so so so bad. 

I honestly didn’t think that we would get worse from the Pulis days, but I think the prospect of more Warnock is worse. 
 

It’s a short term “solution” and we’ll be left in the same sad state of affairs we find ourself in now. 
 

I am done. 
 

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Just now, ManBearPig said:

I used to think very highly of Gibson. Yes he puts a hell of a lot of money into the club, but he is just *** his money away with all these short term and backwards steps. He is how football used to be run. Our only recent bit of success was when Orta came in and the footballing decisions were taken out of his control? 
 

We took a gamble on Karanka and he brought a good restructuring and professionalism to the club. When it was going well people were waxing lyrical about how he transformed us into that. All the success he had has now been eroded. 
 

We appointed Agnew and waved the white flag. 
We appointed Monk, let him spend big and didn’t really have a tactical blue print. 
We then appoint Pulis and I think he was buoyed with Bamford, Adama and Gibson. Who were then sold. 
We then appoint rookie woodgate who nearly relegated us, but again, did we have a tactical blue print? Maybe for about 45 mins vs Luton. 
then we have Warnock and his hoof ball heroes. I mean when you read it all back like that it really is so so so bad. 

I honestly didn’t think that we would get worse from the Pulis days, but I think the prospect of more Warnock is worse. 
 

It’s a short term “solution” and we’ll be left in the same sad state of affairs we find ourself in now. 
 

I am done. 
 

Until next game day 🤪🤪🤪

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Warnock was never going to be the long-term solution, with him in charge expect another mid-table finish next season at best. We'll be lucky not to finish in the bottom half this season, tbh.

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8 hours ago, ManBearPig said:


then we have Warnock and his hoof ball heroes. I mean when you read it all back like that it really is so so so bad. 

I honestly didn’t think that we would get worse from the Pulis days, but I think the prospect of more Warnock is worse. 
 

It’s a short term “solution” and we’ll be left in the same sad state of affairs we find ourself in now. 
 

I am done. 
 

The last 4 years have been genuinely horrendous but I can’t agree that this is worse than it was under Pulis.

I mean under Pulis there were times we played a flat back 5 of shotton, ayala, flint, friend, Saville. 4 plodders in midfield and Britt stood up top with literally no one within 50 yards of him. 

At least this season Neil’s brought a bit of flair in general played people in their actual positions. Admittedly he appears to have lost his *** In this respect in the last few games.

I’m not making a case for Warnock’s long term vision by the way, whatever the *** that is. Just that he is marginally less crap than Pulis.

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11 hours ago, p_mards said:

It's an excellent article. Everything about him is exactly what we lack. Unfortunately we're stuck in the 1990's and there's no way that Gibson will never delegate his decision-making power to a Sporting Director like Webber.

Webber handled relegation incredibly well by keeping to his core principles, having faith in Daniel Farke, retaining the core of the squad that won promotion in the previous season, and doing some shrewd transfer business to freshen up the squad. Contrast that with the absolute chaos of how Gibson handled relegation: sacking Karanka and Orta, appointing Monk and allow him to waste £100+ million in fees and long-term contracts, sack him, attempt to sue him and then appoint Tony Pulis!

Exactly, every time we change manager, we throw the baby out with the bathwater, tear up whatever plan was in place and start from scratch. Instead of looking at what worked and what didn't, keeping what was good and building around that. Or at least building around some core philosophy.

If Karanka were a decent man manager, he'd have been ideal to rebuild around for another shot at the PL. Instead Boro have pinballed their way through season after season with new managers, short-term fixes and apparently little planning other than to keep the club's head above water financially.

I think it is glaringly obvious (except, sadly, to the people that matter) that Boro desperately need someone like Webber, who can think long term and draw up a plan that will allow the club to progress, even if it includes the odd setback.

Funny really, you would think someone who's been in the business as long as Gibson has, might have picked some ideas from some of his peers. Or maybe he just hasn't been rubbing shoulders with the right people? Or maybe he really is just stubborn and refuses to relinquish any control?

 

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13 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Funny really, you would think someone who's been in the business as long as Gibson has, might have picked some ideas from some of his peers. Or maybe he just hasn't been rubbing shoulders with the right people? Or maybe he really is just stubborn and refuses to relinquish any control?

As painful and frustrating as it has been for the fans for over a decade now SG is firstly and foremost a fan himself so he must feel the same pain and even more so in his pocket. It is difficult for any of us to look in the mirror and accept that we are not very good at something let alone stand aside for someone else to come in and no doubt undo everything we have done be it dodgy wallpapering or bodged joinery repairs.

As difficult as that is most of the time we do acknowledge that we either don't have the skills or at least the time to do a proper job and employ the services of an expert. SG I imagine has spent a small fortune on his recent property in N. Yorks to get it exactly how he wants it to be. I'd wager that he employed skilled tradesmen to do the brickwork, plastering, plumbing and electricals even down to the painting and decorating, tiling and fitting of carpets. He still owns the property and can enjoy the fruits of their labour. Doing the same with MFC is no different and doesn't take away from the fact that he still owns it and has done a first rate job if it achieves the objective. 

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I was reading through a thread from December 2019 and you could literally cut and paste the discussions then about appointing a DOF to the present day. Maybe Karanka might make a good DOF keeping him away from day to day relations with players or Mogga if Rovers decide to part company. I'd imagine Mowbray would be the more comfortable fit with SG. 

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