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Neil Warnock, Steve Gibson & Long Term Vision?


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Reading between the lines of warnocks interview where they talk about Chris hughtons sacking he sounded like he is under pressure himself, he also made similar comments in regard to Scott's appointment too. (perhaps reading too much into it) and I wonder if he was the manager which was supposedly furious at his chairman for spending alot of money on a foreign player. 

 

 

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As it's looking a virtual certainty that Warnock is going to get the job for next season, it's worth noting both the significant positives and negatives that will result from Warnock being our manager

👀Thanks for the invite, really appreciate it.

The Evening Gazette has said that Steve Gibson is against a director of football because it would add another 6 figure salary onto the wage bill. I can't help but question whether that is the true mot

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Just like Pulis he gets a season too many and we write off yet another year of nothingness. What is wrong with this club? How the hell can no one at the club see this? It’s blatantly obvious? Amateurish management from the top at the club. 

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1 hour ago, Borodane said:

Just like Pulis he gets a season too many and we write off yet another year of nothingness. What is wrong with this club? How the hell can no one at the club see this? It’s blatantly obvious? Amateurish management from the top at the club. 

Our football clubs hierarchy is far from amateur, do they make mistakes? Yes, Neil warnock is a good football manager but for whatever reason it just doesn't seem to be working. He will be given several more games at least to turn it around

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15 minutes ago, Payero said:

Our football clubs hierarchy is far from amateur, do they make mistakes? Yes, Neil warnock is a good football manager but for whatever reason it just doesn't seem to be working. He will be given several more games at least to turn it around

Well they’ve hardly covered themselves in glory since we got promoted squandering millions and millions and appointing one deadbeat manager after another who is taking us absolutely nowhere. I just pray that Gibson and Bausor will steer well clear of the footballing decisions now that Scott is here, even if Scott wants to replace Warnock on Monday. 

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4 minutes ago, Borodane said:

Well they’ve hardly covered themselves in glory since we got promoted squandering millions and millions and appointing one deadbeat manager after another who is taking us absolutely nowhere. I just pray that Gibson and Bausor will steer well clear of the footballing decisions now that Scott is here, even if Scott wants to replace Warnock on Monday. 

Football is a gamble in everything you do, we spend within our means and follow the rules. That's all we can ask. 

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13 minutes ago, Payero said:

Football is a gamble in everything you do, we spend within our means and follow the rules. That's all we can ask. 

Probably should have stuck with Pulis then in that case, heaven forbid fans want to watch entertaining football, win a few games or even have something to cheer about.

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In 2021, we've played 33 games and won 11, drawn 7 and lost 15.

With a points per game of 1.21.

Just making 6th on average requires 1.6 points per game, which we are nowhere near right now, we would need to win the next 3 on the bounce to hit that for this season alone (currently 1.13 ppg), and then carry on that form for the next 35 games.

If we go off the entirety of games in 2021, we'd need to win the next 11 games in a row to get to 1.6 points a game.

Automatic promotion needs around 1.9 points per game, which is an absolute mile off.

It has been a bad year of results for Neil Warnock and Middlesbrough.

 

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I think the most sympathetic line you can take towards Warnock is he's bedding in a whole crop of new players, some of whom look decidedly rusty. It takes time to get on each others' wavelength, establish patterns of play, etc. 

Sporar, Hernandez and Payero are clearly exciting talents, the likes of which we haven't seen in Boro shirts for a while, but we also haven't seen the best of them yet. If they come good, we could be set for some exciting performances, especially at home, and it might be impossible to justify playing 'wingbacks' any more over a 4231 or 442.

Assuming the players haven't already chucked it, which some may have done, I think we need to wait a few more games to see how all these new faces slot in. I agree Warnock is making rank bad decisions in-game, but few people quibbled with us keeping a winning lineup pre-match today. We did okay in the first half, but the result has soured everyone's perspective, and rightly so.

Neil, if by some masochistic fluke you are actually reading this, you can win the fans back with more positive substitutions and no more instructions to lump it into the channels. Persist with the current approach, and you'll be castigated each time we come away from a match with anything less than three points, and the doubters will slowly turn against you until we're playing in front of 12,000 apathetic souls, just like the fag-end of Mogga's time here.

 

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This is where we are though because with Warnock he has to get results because the enjoyment and appeal of his football isn’t there. Like Pulis, the results are the only thing that matters, and now that he’s not getting them, fans believe (and rightly so IMO) that they deserve better. 
 

We could have had a manager who plays decent football, for the last 3 appointments. Gibson has decided to pick Warnock and Pulis who are about two of the most backwards managers you can think of, and woodgate who is learning how to coach. 
 

We are tired and fed up Steve. We don’t deserve to be served up *** and uninspiring football each week. 
- the kick it long approach to games. 
- the no clear pattern to how we set up. 
- the constant moaning of the referees and fourth officials. 
- the fact you’re now moaning we have an injury crisis when you have been in charge of developing a system over the last 453 days to get the best out of our players have left us with an unbalanced squad.

It just creates a bad atmosphere and it feels similar to the Forest and Hughton situation. Pull the trigger before it’s too late. But again, loyalty in football to Gibson means more to a manager, than to the fans of the club he owns. 

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3 hours ago, ManBearPig said:

This is where we are though because with Warnock he has to get results because the enjoyment and appeal of his football isn’t there. Like Pulis, the results are the only thing that matters, and now that he’s not getting them, fans believe (and rightly so IMO) that they deserve better. 

We could have had a manager who plays decent football, for the last 3 appointments. Gibson has decided to pick Warnock and Pulis who are about two of the most backwards managers you can think of, and woodgate who is learning how to coach. 

We are tired and fed up Steve. We don’t deserve to be served up *** and uninspiring football each week. 
- the kick it long approach to games. 
- the no clear pattern to how we set up. 
- the constant moaning of the referees and fourth officials. 
- the fact you’re now moaning we have an injury crisis when you have been in charge of developing a system over the last 453 days to get the best out of our players have left us with an unbalanced squad.

It just creates a bad atmosphere and it feels similar to the Forest and Hughton situation. Pull the trigger before it’s too late. But again, loyalty in football to Gibson means more to a manager, than to the fans of the club he owns. 

I agree with bits of what you and some others say. Warnock is getting it in the neck for results as he is the manager, it is the traditional learned behaviour of fans, generally with good reason. I do feel sorry for Warnock though. 
 

Lets not forget, he took over a team that was sleep walking to relegation and saved us. He improved players and raised hopes for much of last season till the injuries and officiating jointly took its toll. This year I think he has wanted to build a team to challenge, BUT during the summer, the club has decided to reinvent itself once more from on high has been set in motion, no doubt forward planning for the gaffers departure in May 2022 and all meant with the best interests at heart. The new ‘vision’ whatever that is (because it hasn’t been properly set out) means we are transitioning.
 

The summer started with Warnock getting Warnock players, Lumley, Crookes,  Ikpeazu, Peltier, Ameobi, Bamba et al The squad was hugely imbalanced and has been improved in the final third and out wide, but at the expense of the full-backs and defense.

The loaning out of Coulson and Spence without cover seems suicidal and not a decision Warnock will have pushed for, certainly without cover. I think the owner decided to sanction their moves to try to solve the deficiencies further forward, robbing Peter to pay Paul in reality. It seems realistic, especially given Morsy, our former defensive midfielder and shield has openly stated that he was sold by those above Warnock, our midfield now looks weaker out of possession, as does our defence since his departure.
 

Morsy was no doubt sold to fund the bringing in of Lea-Siliki who is presently a curates egg. Warnock stated Payero was brought in because the owner decided to look in that area. Sporar is unlikely to be a Warnock signing either. My point is the manager is doing his best to work with players that suit a different style to his tried and trusted methods. Warnock is merely a temporary gatekeeper until the new guycan come with a clean slate. Warnock is trying to work with a set of players that don’t readily function as he would like. Individually the squad has better skillsets than previous squads in my opinion, but the defence is now so weak and without cover. Dijksteel looked well off it yesterday, he was wandering all over the pitch like a lost soul, he wasn’t man marking, Hall is cumberome, 34 year old Peltier had a tough time with Bowler but did his best. Fry was trying to cover too much and so looked out of sorts, but i think his issues are more to do with the ineffectiveness of those around him. All in all we are vulnerable to pace as QPR and Blackpool clearly showed. 

All in all, I don’t see the point in changing the manager now unless the incoming one is a perfect fit for our new vision. I would rather get through this season, seeing it for what it really is and hope the ‘vision’ of Gibson, Scott etc can be fast tracked thereafter. I hope the new gaffer is already lined up in truth for 2022, if he is then keeping Warnock makes sense. If not, bringing someone in now has the new guy starting on the back foot and makes his task less forgiving. 

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I feel sorry for Warnock to some extent. But I think he brought valuable experience and order after the flapping of Woodgate. He got the job done and then avoided relegation. 
 

However, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head and this is where fans seemingly are left confused with the club. We’ve signed players who are not Warnock players, so why is Warnock still here? He is showing that he can’t get the best out of them. He didn’t fancy Payero but he came in yesterday, hit the bar and at least was working their goal keeper. 
 

I don’t think that Warnock is adaptable or is willing to adapt to our current players and get the best out of them, so I would advocate a new person coming in to at least get some practice before next season. It essentially is already a dead season in terms of play offs and we’re wasting that with a manager who won’t be here next season. It all just feels a bit meh. Unless we have a dramatic turn around, but I don’t see that happening based off all the games with Warnock in charge. 

Surely your point about better players being here now than under previous managers is exactly why we should change managers? It’s not a given that those players would come back and then we’ve wasted the time we had with them just going through the motions. 
 

If Warnock can’t beat a tune out of a squad then it is a sad day for the club to just accept that fact and go ahead like business is usual. Especially with fans paying money to see a team play. 
 

Fans will eventually get fed up with his excuses and rubbish football, I just don’t want it to be a case of wasting a year while we just sit and wait for him to leave, what’s the point?

 

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1 hour ago, DocMartin said:

I agree with bits of what you and some others say. Warnock is getting it in the neck for results as he is the manager, it is the traditional learned behaviour of fans, generally with good reason. I do feel sorry for Warnock though. 
 

Lets not forget, he took over a team that was sleep walking to relegation and saved us. He improved players and raised hopes for much of last season till the injuries and officiating jointly took its toll. This year I think he has wanted to build a team to challenge, BUT during the summer, the club has decided to reinvent itself once more from on high has been set in motion, no doubt forward planning for the gaffers departure in May 2022 and all meant with the best interests at heart. The new ‘vision’ whatever that is (because it hasn’t been properly set out) means we are transitioning.
 

The summer started with Warnock getting Warnock players, Lumley, Crookes,  Ikpeazu, Peltier, Ameobi, Bamba et al The squad was hugely imbalanced and has been improved in the final third and out wide, but at the expense of the full-backs and defense.

The loaning out of Coulson and Spence without cover seems suicidal and not a decision Warnock will have pushed for, certainly without cover. I think the owner decided to sanction their moves to try to solve the deficiencies further forward, robbing Peter to pay Paul in reality. It seems realistic, especially given Morsy, our former defensive midfielder and shield has openly stated that he was sold by those above Warnock, our midfield now looks weaker out of possession, as does our defence since his departure.
 

Morsy was no doubt sold to fund the bringing in of Lea-Siliki who is presently a curates egg. Warnock stated Payero was brought in because the owner decided to look in that area. Sporar is unlikely to be a Warnock signing either. My point is the manager is doing his best to work with players that suit a different style to his tried and trusted methods. Warnock is merely a temporary gatekeeper until the new guycan come with a clean slate. Warnock is trying to work with a set of players that don’t readily function as he would like. Individually the squad has better skillsets than previous squads in my opinion, but the defence is now so weak and without cover. Dijksteel looked well off it yesterday, he was wandering all over the pitch like a lost soul, he wasn’t man marking, Hall is cumberome, 34 year old Peltier had a tough time with Bowler but did his best. Fry was trying to cover too much and so looked out of sorts, but i think his issues are more to do with the ineffectiveness of those around him. All in all we are vulnerable to pace as QPR and Blackpool clearly showed. 

All in all, I don’t see the point in changing the manager now unless the incoming one is a perfect fit for our new vision. I would rather get through this season, seeing it for what it really is and hope the ‘vision’ of Gibson, Scott etc can be fast tracked thereafter. I hope the new gaffer is already lined up in truth for 2022, if he is then keeping Warnock makes sense. If not, bringing someone in now has the new guy starting on the back foot and makes his task less forgiving. 

You named 3 players out of the 23 that warnock had brought in in his 16 months here. Warnock has been more than backed. 

We lost Spence and coulson but signed two defenders as well,  so the numbers are the same as last season. Warnock decided to use these two defensive signings to bring in 2 players who couldn't possibly play 3 games a week. That's on him. 

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We can point fingers all over the place but simply MFC lost their way some time ago for reasons that might not be self evident but fair to say  the wheels came off.

I look at so many of the current PL and Championship teams, we were equal and in many cases better than most, something has held us back whilst others sorted themselves out and steadied things

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