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Neil Warnock, Steve Gibson & Long Term Vision?


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As it's looking a virtual certainty that Warnock is going to get the job for next season, it's worth noting both the significant positives and negatives that will result from Warnock being our manager

ūüĎÄThanks for the invite, really appreciate it.

The Evening Gazette has said that Steve Gibson is against a director of football because it would add another 6 figure salary onto the wage bill. I can't help but question whether that is the true mot

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1 hour ago, Borodane said:

I'm guessing this quote from NW means we are stepping up our hoofing from 75% to a 100%. Might aswell just play Grant Hall up front.

Guess Bettinelli's going to be doing¬†some shooting practice from 100 yards.¬†ūü§™

After all, its not like he seems to do any catching practice.

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1 hour ago, Changing Times said:

I'm getting Deja vu from it.  Sounds an awful lot like what Pulis said to me?

Do you speak to Pulis a lot?

Fair point, though. Maybe this is the message from the top, which every manager is instructed to relay. Or maybe - and I know this is a radical concept - Gibson only likes to appoint managers who share his worldview.

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2 hours ago, RiseAgainst said:

Do you speak to Pulis a lot?

Fair point, though. Maybe this is the message from the top, which every manager is instructed to relay. Or maybe - and I know this is a radical concept - Gibson only likes to appoint managers who share his worldview.

Yeah, for financial advice.

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19 hours ago, Changing Times said:

I'm getting Deja vu from it.  Sounds an awful lot like what Pulis said to me?

Yeah that was my first thought aswell, but for some reason I trust Warnock a lot more. Pulis was in it for himself and just have a (naive) belief that Warnock is actually thinking about the club.

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19 hours ago, Changing Times said:

I'm getting Deja vu from it.  Sounds an awful lot like what Pulis said to me?

Except Warnock is actually doing things while Pulis just lined his own pockets.

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From his interview I felt he was saying if he can inspire the lads to go on a run till the end of the season and get in or close to the playoffs he would be willing to stay to give it go next year, if not he is off. 

I don't think he feels its worth staying if we aren't going to challenge. 

As for the advice he has for Gibbo, unless in there is to overhaul the recruitment, whether that's DOF or getting rid of the current incumbents then nothing will change for the better. 

Can't see where the club are going at the minutes apart from just surviving season to season.

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2 hours ago, SmogInSheff said:

From his interview I felt he was saying if he can inspire the lads to go on a run till the end of the season and get in or close to the playoffs he would be willing to stay to give it go next year, if not he is off. 

I don't think he feels its worth staying if we aren't going to challenge. 

As for the advice he has for Gibbo, unless in there is to overhaul the recruitment, whether that's DOF or getting rid of the current incumbents then nothing will change for the better. 

Can't see where the club are going at the minutes apart from just surviving season to season.

I think Gibson will run the club his way until he leaves. I'm not convinced Warnock is the right man to deliver a modern football direction masterclass but even if he is, do we go along with it? Does Warnock sitting and putting a long term vision in front of Gibson make any difference to what will happen in the next 5 years? I'm not convinced.

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5 hours ago, Brunners said:

Except Warnock is actually doing things while Pulis just lined his own pockets.

With respect, we've got no real idea what Warnock is doing and the same goes for Pulis when he was here.  We do know that Gibson was more than happy with what Pulis was doing, which is why he wanted him to continue on in the job.  Mowbray said similar things after Strachan, then Karanka took over from him and everything needed to be changed again, Pulis said the same after Monk and now Warnock is saying it again. 

This is how I think it works.  Each manager has their own way of doing things and wanting things done.  When they move to a new job, generally things aren't being done that way because the previous manager obviously had his own way as well.  When things aren't going well, especially when things aren't going well, it's because of all of these things that need to be changed.  Really they don't need to be changed, it's simply a matter of personal preference for that particular manager, and a convenient excuse when results aren't going your way.

Would be far better to implement systems, make sure that they actually work, and appoint managers who are willing to work within those systems, than chopping and changing over and over again.  That's also why I don't want Warnock here or setting up these systems for future managers, because it would force us to hire someone similar in the future, and I don't believe that would be all that easy to do, or something that we'd really even want to do, if we had much sense. There is no future in that, Warnock's teams, even when successful at this level, have failed to move on to the next level each time.   That's not to say he isn't a good manager but his way of doing things has been honed over 30 odd years.  You're not going to find many like him in the future I reckon, not with his background and beliefs about how teams should play.  I'll guarantee right now that the next manager to come in will make similar comments to these, and we'll be doing the same things again.

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When Warnock does eventually leave I'm already anticipating fans primary focus to be on the knee-jerking interpretations of "dinosaur football" and "fast, free-flowing football". However, I think that is completely missing point that our failures over the past decade and more - aside from Karanka's spell - isn't because we played too attack minded or too organised under any specific manager, but because Gibson keeps knee-jerking between these conflicting styles of play, which has left us in a constant state of transition with a poorly balanced and unsettled squad. What is often lost between this knee-jerking is the 2 or 3 years that it generally takes to properly transition between these styles. This is especially alarming considering that since relegation in 2017 our 3 previous managers (Monk, Pulis & Woodgate) have averaged 49 games before leaving, all in contrasting styles of play. It's simply illogical to be handing our 3 and 4 year contracts in that environment! It's impossible to build a successful team over several seasons.

Burnley have had the same style of play for close to a decade and have gave Dyche the time to build a promotion winning team, supported him after getting relegated, and then rebuilt again in exactly the same template, got promoted again and have now stabilised in the Premier League. They haven't blown a fortune, certainly not prior to their first promotion under Dyche, and have done it on sensible signings with every signing fitting into the managers plans. If they hand out a 4 year deal to a player then you can be confident that he is going to fit their style of play for all them years. They don't waste £15 million and £40k a year on a small striker like Assombalonga, sack the manager 29 games later and appoint Pulis who needs a targetman striker to suit his style of play. Their transfer record is exceptional because they keep to their plan and only sign players to fit it. They're the benchmark of what we should aspire to be off the pitch. If we had a chairman with a lot more pragmatism and self-control then we could have been competing at the Premier League level with Burnley for the majority of the past decade.

Our primary focus when a new manager comes in should be to have an *actual* long-term plan and to build upon the good things that are currently in place. Even at this moment in time under Warnock, whilst we're doing alright by being just below the play off spots, there's clearly areas that Warnock will want to sign different types of players to fit into his preferred style of play. Firstly, we really lack a targetman striker to hold the ball up and get on the end of floated crosses in the opposition box. Secondly, we've never been able to get two genuine wingers on the pitch playing together. Now that we've signed Bolasie, Kebano & Mendez-Laing we should be able to, but injuries and form has restricted it so far. Thirdly, we need some big brave CB's who can get us 6-8 goals a season and turn the boring games into professional 1-0 wins.

I'd love Warnock to be here next season and, as said just above, you can see where he can add extra quality to the squad to turn us into a genuine promotion battling team. Add in a targetman like Kieffer Moore, a Sean Morrison at CB and two genuine wingers who can keep fit for the majority of the season, then we'll see his organised style of football performing at a far higher level that what we are currently. If Warnock doesn't want to keep here next season then the worst thing we could possibly do it to knee-jerk into a manager who promises "fast, free-flowing football". We need be a lot more like Burnley by having a pragmatic long-term plan and not let the next manager attempt to drastically change everything like Monk and Woodgate. The power to do that rests in Steve Gibson's hands and I'm terrified that he's just going to keep repeating the vicious cycle that we've been stuck in for over the past decade and end up knee-jerking into another na√Įve and short sighted promise of football utopia.

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16 hours ago, Changing Times said:

With respect, we've got no real idea what Warnock is doing and the same goes for Pulis when he was here.  We do know that Gibson was more than happy with what Pulis was doing, which is why he wanted him to continue on in the job.  Mowbray said similar things after Strachan, then Karanka took over from him and everything needed to be changed again, Pulis said the same after Monk and now Warnock is saying it again. 

This is how I think it works.  Each manager has their own way of doing things and wanting things done.  When they move to a new job, generally things aren't being done that way because the previous manager obviously had his own way as well.  When things aren't going well, especially when things aren't going well, it's because of all of these things that need to be changed.  Really they don't need to be changed, it's simply a matter of personal preference for that particular manager, and a convenient excuse when results aren't going your way.

Would be far better to implement systems, make sure that they actually work, and appoint managers who are willing to work within those systems, than chopping and changing over and over again.  That's also why I don't want Warnock here or setting up these systems for future managers, because it would force us to hire someone similar in the future, and I don't believe that would be all that easy to do, or something that we'd really even want to do, if we had much sense. There is no future in that, Warnock's teams, even when successful at this level, have failed to move on to the next level each time.   That's not to say he isn't a good manager but his way of doing things has been honed over 30 odd years.  You're not going to find many like him in the future I reckon, not with his background and beliefs about how teams should play.  I'll guarantee right now that the next manager to come in will make similar comments to these, and we'll be doing the same things again.

Well, given Boro's manager history, its pretty likely Warnock's successor will be completely different.

I'd disagree with your middle paragraph. I think its usually unavoidable that when a new manager comes in, it signals an "all change" approach. Or to put it another way, its very rare for a new manager to come into any club and for the transition to be seamless, with no drastic changes. Its just a fact of footballing life.

Thats why its so important to make sure you make good appointments in managerial & coaching staff, to enable a period of stability & continuity.

If you're a club like Chelsea or Real Madrid and can simply throw unlimited amounts of money around, then its obviously less of an issue. Some clubs do indeed make a habit of changing managers every couple of years...but most aren't in a position to do that.

Regarding "implementing systems that work" - I think thats rather chasing the impossible in the long term. Football, like anything else, evolves over time and things that may be successful for a few years, may no longer be effective a few years later.

Even the best managers can find this out. Look at Wenger's last few years at Arsenal and Mourinho's last spell at Chelsea, his tenure at Man Utd and Spurs' inconsistency.

Ultimately you just need to be able to look at other teams who are successful and either see if you can replicate their methods, or else find a counter to them.

 

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