League Restructure

[Humpty 3,261]

He'd have the Premier League money in the bank. He'd have voted it down, no question. 

Money is the bottom line.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

28 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Hypothetically, had we been promoted last season, do you think that Gibbo would have voted for or against the idea?

Against. Definitely.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

It's worth saying that apparently all 20 clubs voted unanimously to put an end to Project Big Picture. Now, whether that means they all agree it's a terrible idea in its current state or if the big few decided not to make an even worse name for themselves right now, who knows. But I saw it from Dan Roan on Twitter that the official PL statement is that it was all 20:

 

[Changing Times 12,347]

2 hours ago, ScarBoro said:

You do wonder whether MU and  Liverpool ever expected it to get approved or whether this is just the softener for something else already designed  that they think will be more acceptable to the rest of the PL and that the EFL will accept in relief.

It’s just the opening part of a negotiation ain’t it?  That’s how I see it anyway. It’s been pushed forward now because of Covid.

[sackrobson2 371]

9 hours ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Project big picture has been voted against by the rest of the premier league. 

Apparently by all 20 clubs including the two who proposed it. All a bit weird. 

[RiseAgainst 3,793]

Maybe they saw which way the wind was blowing and decided not to pursue it? If it was universally opposed by the other clubs, they might have decided to keep their hands down when it came to voting in favour.

Or, as some people have suggested, perhaps it was just an ambitious opening offer. Maybe now they're going to come back with a more realistic proposal, which would have been controversial in isolation but will seem far more palatable compared to Project Big Dump on Everyone Else.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

16 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Against. Definitely.

Gibbo is strangely uncommitted in this latest article, maybe he would have voted for big picture, regardless. 
 

“If people don’t want football as it is, and what they want is a 20 club Premier League and they don’t want Manchester United to have a better voting rights than a club that pops up for one season, then destroy the pyramid. That is the alternative. It is the Judgment of Solomon and it will destroy the pyramid. That is what people are failing to grasp.“

“If I was one of the other 14 clubs in the Premier League would my view be different? It’s a great question. It would depend on the circumstances of my club at the time. I won’t point the finger at any club in the Premier League. They have got there because of merit and because they’re well run.“
 

[AnglianRed 6,320]

18 hours ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Project big picture has been voted against by the rest of the premier league. 

I guess they were smart enough to realise that the current 1 Club, 1 Vote system is a lot more beneficial to them.

So the attempted power grab has been thwarted, but I'm still expecting a new proposal that creates more financial and administrative distance between the PL and EFL.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

Just now, AnglianRed said:

I guess they were smart enough to realise that the current 1 Club, 1 Vote system is a lot more beneficial to them.

So the attempted power grab has been thwarted, but I'm still expecting a new proposal that creates more financial and administrative distance between the PL and EFL.

Administrative, probably, hopefully not financial. 

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

He's uncommitted because he knows he would approach it differently in different circumstances. Because he knows if we were in the Premier League, even just trying to avoid relegation, he wouldn't be in favour of changes that immediately changed the task in front of us by making the bottom of the league more dangerous. He's admitted he's selfishly wanting Big Picture to go through because of the immediate benefits to our club. What benefits are in store for a club that isn't a big 6 club in the Premier League?

Now, if Boro were a big 6 club in the Premier League, he would absolutely 100% vote for it.

Nobody is gonna argue that something needs to happen pretty sharpish. There are very few people who are 'failing to grasp' the reality of the situation in the way Gibson suggests. They're just not of the mindset that you accept the first offer from a couple of hyper-capitalist billionaires and suggest they're altruists with the best interests of the entire English footballing pyramid at heart. These people don't give away something for nowt and what they want in return for a more substantial package is so far in the wrong direction we should not even entertain it, never mind wholeheartedly support it. There are other ways of approaching this, the response from the PL clubs appears to suggest they're already working on an alternative which will still benefit the PL clubs financially in the long run.

[RiseAgainst 3,793]

55 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

"I won’t point the finger at any club in the Premier League. They have got there because of merit and because they’re well run.“
 

Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but is Gibson acknowledging here that MFC is not well run?

[AnglianRed 6,320]

48 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Gibbo is strangely uncommitted in this latest article, maybe he would have voted for big picture, regardless. 
 

“If people don’t want football as it is, and what they want is a 20 club Premier League and they don’t want Manchester United to have a better voting rights than a club that pops up for one season, then destroy the pyramid. That is the alternative. It is the Judgment of Solomon and it will destroy the pyramid. That is what people are failing to grasp.“

“If I was one of the other 14 clubs in the Premier League would my view be different? It’s a great question. It would depend on the circumstances of my club at the time. I won’t point the finger at any club in the Premier League. They have got there because of merit and because they’re well run.“
 

Seriously?!?!?! 😂

The only people guilty of "destroying the pyramid" - or at least trying to cut the tip off and create a closed shop, are the PL.

As to PL clubs being well run...I would love to have a look at their latest financial records and see how many are actually turning a profit and don't have large debts to service.

I'm sure some are, but I would put money on at least half of them running at a loss, like many Championship clubs. Then you've got clubs like Spurs who have invested hundreds of millions in new stadiums (either built or in the pipeline). I wonder if Arsenal have even finished paying for the Emirates yet, or Man City the Etihad?

Where would the likes of Chelsea and Man City be without their billionaire owners? Would the TV money and sponsorship alone allow them to spend hundreds of millions on transfers every season?

We've known for a long time that the PL is effectively a 2-tier league, with the top 6 apparently financially stable (propped up to a greater or lesser extent by their wealthy owners) while the rest have to spend carefully, or even struggle just to stay up.

 

But really, to cut my waffling short, I don't know how anyone could say that with a straight face. The PL is a bubble of greed and excess, propped up by TV money and billionaires. Should any of these crutches be taken away at any time, it would collapse like a house of cards built on quicksand.

In any other industry this just would not be sustainable or even remotely considered a viable business model.

 

[AnglianRed 6,320]

12 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but is Gibson acknowledging here that MFC is not well run?

Or possibly he was saying the club was well run while we were in the PL. 😉

[sanddancer 1,967]

6 hours ago, RiseAgainst said:

Maybe they saw which way the wind was blowing and decided not to pursue it? If it was universally opposed by the other clubs, they might have decided to keep their hands down when it came to voting in favour.

Or, as some people have suggested, perhaps it was just an ambitious opening offer. Maybe now they're going to come back with a more realistic proposal, which would have been controversial in isolation but will seem far more palatable compared to Project Big Dump on Everyone Else.

I agree. It was a taster to test resolve of others. They may now retreat to offer a bigger share on the current offer which may look significantly finically larger in comparison but still significantly benefit the big six.
If you think about it in real terms  and If I’m correct,  they only need a majority of one so basically it’s finding out how cheap they can buy the support of another five clubs, assuming of course all six clubs support the proposal.

[sanddancer 1,967]

4 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

Seriously?!?!?! 😂

The only people guilty of "destroying the pyramid" - or at least trying to cut the tip off and create a closed shop, are the PL.

As to PL clubs being well run...I would love to have a look at their latest financial records and see how many are actually turning a profit and don't have large debts to service.

I'm sure some are, but I would put money on at least half of them running at a loss, like many Championship clubs. Then you've got clubs like Spurs who have invested hundreds of millions in new stadiums (either built or in the pipeline). I wonder if Arsenal have even finished paying for the Emirates yet, or Man City the Etihad?

Where would the likes of Chelsea and Man City be without their billionaire owners? Would the TV money and sponsorship alone allow them to spend hundreds of millions on transfers every season?

We've known for a long time that the PL is effectively a 2-tier league, with the top 6 apparently financially stable (propped up to a greater or lesser extent by their wealthy owners) while the rest have to spend carefully, or even struggle just to stay up.

 

But really, to cut my waffling short, I don't know how anyone could say that with a straight face. The PL is a bubble of greed and excess, propped up by TV money and billionaires. Should any of these crutches be taken away at any time, it would collapse like a house of cards built on quicksand.

In any other industry this just would not be sustainable or even remotely considered a viable business model.

 

Just to add. I have no doubt you can lower tax by declaring debt so the new builds or refurbishment are offsetting the tax they would need to pay. If they are clever enough then possibly don’t pay tax at all. Basically worth and cash are not related.