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Boro v Reading 0-0

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10 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Well he's never been given that kind of money to work with. Who knows what he'd come up with if he was given free rein? Oh ye of little faith!¬†ūüėČ

Leeds under Bielsa (18/19 & 19/20 seasons) spent less than Warnock did with Cardiff (in the 17/18 season). So I don't think spending vast sums of money correlates to playing good football.

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4 minutes ago, J.T. said:

They finished 3 points ahead of us and picked up 4 points from their last 2 games (more than us)... so if we apparently avoided relegation by the skins of our teeth’s, then I don’t think it’s outrageous to suggest that Reading weren’t much better. 
 

They’ve won 4 games. If you look into those games, you’ll find that most of those wins were undeserved. They are not a great side. I’m not say a point is a bad result. But to settle for a point with 30 mins to go, at home to them is depressing. And as I’ve said before, Pulis would have been slated for it.

But to say they picked up 4pts in last 2 games is misleading as its not taken in account what those teams below them picked in last 2 games. Reading were never really in trouble were they unlike us? They alwags had a healthy points gap on bottom 3.

We did try to win the game. But equally if you aint going to win then try not to lose it by being stupid.

This mentality of lets try win every game at any costs is stupid and if we had done what you asked by all out attacking them in last 30mins and lost you would be on here whinging about our lack of game management. 

They the form team in division and we matched them. To whinge about that is ridiculous 

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1 minute ago, TLF10 said:

But to say they picked up 4pts in last 2 games is misleading as its not taken in account what those teams below them picked in last 2 games. Reading were never really in trouble were they unlike us? They alwags had a healthy points gap on bottom 3.

We did try to win the game. But equally if you aint going to win then try not to lose it by being stupid.

This mentality of lets try win every game at any costs is stupid and if we had done what you asked by all out attacking them in last 30mins and lost you would be on here whinging about our lack of game management. 

They the form team in division and we matched them. To whinge about that is ridiculous 

Spot on @TLF10

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21 minutes ago, TLF10 said:

But to say they picked up 4pts in last 2 games is misleading as its not taken in account what those teams below them picked in last 2 games. Reading were never really in trouble were they unlike us? They alwags had a healthy points gap on bottom 3.

We did try to win the game. But equally if you aint going to win then try not to lose it by being stupid.

This mentality of lets try win every game at any costs is stupid and if we had done what you asked by all out attacking them in last 30mins and lost you would be on here whinging about our lack of game management. 

They the form team in division and we matched them. To whinge about that is ridiculous 

When did I say I wanted to all out attack them? I’ve never said that I want to see us go gung-ho. I’m wanting us to at least ask a few questions of them by sticking on someone like Roberts rather than sticking with a midfield 3 of Saville, Howson and Morsy, who all do exactly the same job, for a full 90 minutes. Is that too much to ask for?

 

Also, you say we did try to win the game? What did we do to try and win the game? Both our substitutions were to try and nullify them, not to cause them problems. 

Edited by J.T.

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2 hours ago, thomas said:

Fine okay lets say Warnock doesn't stay for a min at the end of the season but come the end of the season he makes 1 or 2 good finds in the January transfer window (permanent players on a few years contract) and doesn't get us promoted but at least makes the season more enjoyable than last. Going back to your original point why do we need a rebuild?  surely we shouldn't be thinking evolution not revolution if the squad is finally going in the right direction. 

On your point on last season and I am curious why do you think that should have finished a lot higher? with Clayton and friend almost completely lost their legs, Guestede playing 19 games last season upfront for us, Shotton considered a good option at the back (i watched him at derby when was at uni and of course with us hes really not a good option), Nmecha and Ravel coming in on loan who rank bad, Britt most of the year diddnt look bothered and playing kids who tbf were the best players in the most part but many hadn't played before last season so they were always going to get taught lessons by the better teams in the league along the way.

I dont think anyone would have got promotion with that squad last season even with Pep or Klopp in charge from the start honestly nobody. 

Our squad wasn't exactly great when we finished 7th either, it was unbalanced, lacked pace and creativity and yet still we finished 7th.

Why we would need a rebuild again is because the next manager will have his own ways of doing things. And evidence has shown since Karanka that we have absolutely no sodding idea how to evolve a team across managers, we have flip-flapped between two ends of the spectrum and gotten nowhere doing it. We just don't take into consideration how matched managers are in terms of style, we just pick a new manager and then tell them to deal with it. The end result is that we don't have an evolution or a revolution, we stagnate as we deal with the previous manager's building blocks whilst trying to invoke the new ones.

The big question here though is why are we giving Warnock the job for a year if the end goal is to sit in mid table? We don't need stabilising, this squad isn't relegation fodder, it was driven to such depths by a man out of his depth. If the next manager is going to be a long term project, why not bloody start that now? Why wait a year?

The answer is pretty simple. Gibson has given Warnock the job in the hope he can get us promoted. He's not willing to waste another few years if he can get what he wants right now. Otherwise his appointment makes no sense. He either takes his time, makes an appointment to take our team and evolve it over a few seasons or he keeps making reactionary moves in the hope something will immediately click. If he's gonna do the latter then I'm gonna judge him on that.

People who think this thought process is about hope or positivity that we can actually get promoted are seriously missing the point, though. I'm not convinced we'll get promoted any more than you or anyone else. I'm setting that to be my expectation because if we don't, this year is time wasted. If we don't make it up this year, this is absolutely another stick to beat the club with as we continue to prove ourselves as a crap example of a modern football club.

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In some ways, you have answered your own question there, Wilson.
 

The club doesn’t plan things and I think it was more a case of “cheers for keeping us up, do you fancy another year at the helm Neil? “ I don’t think targets were set, I half expect Gibbo to try and persuade NW to hang around next year too.

I don’t think Warnock will be harshly judged if we don’t go up this season.  

Edited by BillyWoofs_shinpad
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23 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

In some ways, you have answered your own question there, Wilson.
 

The club doesn’t plan things and I think it was more a case of “cheers for keeping us up, do you fancy another year at the helm Neil? “ I don’t think targets were set, I half expect Gibbo to try and persuade NW to hang around next year too.

I don’t think Warnock will be harshly judged if we don’t go up this season.  

I do hope he won't be...though judging from some of the responses on here, Neil can expect some "Warnocking" if he doesn't get us up.

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2 hours ago, Blanco said:

You took a hell of a long time there to say because I‚Äôm content with what we have that I‚Äôm¬†wrong. Not everyone sees doom and gloom everywhere. Maybe you should try and be positive sometime ūüôĄ

How can you possibly be content with the way we’ve been going? The only positive I can see is having warnock in this situation and he has been badly let down regarding getting players in he needs.

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I'm feeling pretty positive about our start of this season despite an average 6 points from 5 games as our fixture list has been very tough and we've had many disrupting factors such as disappointment in the transfer market, injuries and form of players.

I'm happy with our tactics so far this season as opposition teams must hate playing against us as we have a solid team shape, don't take any risks in possession and everyone works hard - akin to us under Karanka. I can see more¬†chances of promotion in that style than the disjointed and na√Įve style of play that we had last season under Woodgate in which we regularly gifted many golden chances to the opposition. We've got a solid defensive base to build from¬†and I think we will only improve as the season develops and we find a knack of turning the closely contested games into wins - as the players who are currently injured, short of fitness or out of form come back into the team.

The poor form of the likes of Spence and Johnson have significantly reduced our attacking threat from wide areas compared to the end of last season. Warnock has attempted to deal with in recent games by starting Bola and Tavernier, but we're still really missing someone like an in form Spence who can dribble past players at ease and open up . Also being without a creative spark from midfield like Roberts has also taken out a lot of creativity from our team - much like our promotion winning side in 2015/16 without Ramirez in #10. Also, the injuries to the likes of Hall and Fletcher are massive blows to our threat from attacking set pieces and aerial crosses from open play - both a key feature of Warnock's style of play. Warnock is an excellent man manager so I'm sure once he adds that extra bit of attacking threat to our team whilst maintaining the solidity, we'll start turning a good amount of the draws into wins.

It's also worth noting that our home record has become a lot more consistent this season. We even really struggled at home under Warnock so it was a huge issue which we seem to have got to grips with. One win and two draws in the league from games against Bournemouth, Barnsley and Fulham is a marked improvement on last season.

Lastly, as others have mentioned, there's no stand out teams in the Championship this season so it's going to be incredibly tight in the automatic promotion and play off spaces come the end of the season. I trust Warnock to manage us well enough to find the extra bit of creativity within our team to get us to a point where we can be in the play off mix come the end of the season.

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14 hours ago, Changing Times said:

You brought Woodgate into it so you made last season relevant, whether you like it or not.  We didn't lose the game last season under him, we won it, which has more relevance than you simply saying we'd have lost it under him.

And your first sentence is precisely what I'm talking about and what I asked you about earlier.  Why are they able to have a new manager, with a new style of play and more confidence, while we have to accept what we are seeing?  What's special about Reading as compared to us?  They finished 3 points ahead of us last season, their manager was appointed at the end of August, they didn't spend a fortune in the summer.  

They picked a different manager with a different style of play to the one we picked? I don't understand what you're asking.

And my original point was JW, had he come up against this seasons Reading & not last seasons Reading, would have found a way to lose that game today. I'm not comparing it to last season at all, Reading are flying high atm.

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2 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

I was being a bit sarcastic there...and referring more to PL teams and other top European leagues.

Obviously Championship clubs don't have anything like that kind of budget, but I think you'll also find they built their teams and playing style over a period of time...and still with larger budgets than Boro...

I don't think anyone has ever turned a club from relegation candidates to promotion winners in the space of a single season. At least not on the money we can spend.

Warnock has literally done it twice at both Cardiff & QPR.

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At least we have got the top of the table team out of the way and won’t have to play another in form team for at least 72 hrs 

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Looking at that he could well be onside. Marginal either way

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