The January Transfer Window 2021 AKA "Didn't we do well"

[BoroJake 2,345]

I think West Ham wanted gilmour. Loads of premier league clubs will be after him. No chance. Not even sure that twitter post is true, not seen it anywhere else

[Boroinredcar 170]

3 hours ago, boksicdink said:

yeah but tbf we were in possession and he is overlapping Bola. The amount of times over the last few games Spence is picking up the ball of a CB in the centre circle is ridiculous too. 

 

He totally exposed Wood against Blackburn. 

Cannot believe that someone is laying the blame for Woods poor display against Blackburn at Spence's door. Wood was poor again last night(not the only one). He needs to go out on loan to League 1 and get roughed up a bit.

[boksicdink 1,942]

16 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I think that's rubbish regarding Spence, to be honest. I think at the moment, there are some that jump on every bad thing he does and let some of our biggest earners get away with murder.

I still can't get it out of my head that some look at that Rothwell goal and have more of a go at Spence than Howson. The ball comes across the box in front of him and he just watches it? Yet it's Spence's fault for losing his man?

This is the image that I see here. This is as Elliott plays the ball across. Rothwell has just lost Spence at this point. But the ball comes across the penalty spot and that is where Howson is and he doesn't even think to step in and get a touch. He's got no idea where anybody is, not a Blackburn player, not a Boro player, he's watching the ball the whole way and he's stood still, he doesn't even follow the play into the box as Elliott breaks in. The only reason he should be watching the ball so closely is if he has the intention of attacking it one way or another. Instead, it passes him by and he is static.

I'm not at all convinced that if Spence follows Rothwell that he prevents that goal. If anything, the biggest question is why is Spence being tasked with marking Rothwell when Blackburn have got 2 players over on his side and Tav is trotting back struggling to cover. If Spence was being asked to tuck inside, whoever has asked him to do that is off their tits mate because if Rothwell doesn't score that goal, Brereton almost certainly does. If Spence tucks inside of his own accord then yeah, it's daft from him. I just can't understand why he would do that unless it's down to our man-marking.

Tav is supposed to mark Douglas and Spence is supposed to be marking Brereton IMO. Spence turning up there switches Howson off as there is a moment jsut before where Howson recognises they are both marking the same man and drops off. 

For me Howson is at fault for not moving Spence back out wide and Spence is at fault for being there in the first place (and subsequent ball watching) 

[boksicdink 1,942]

2 minutes ago, Boroinredcar said:

Cannot believe that someone is laying the blame for Woods poor display against Blackburn at Spence's door. Wood was poor again last night(not the only one). He needs to go out on loan to League 1 and get roughed up a bit.

Wood is completely new to this level of football and he should go to League 1 but at times he was being left 2 on 1 by Spence. I just think in that case Spence needs to be smarter and help out a guy playing in one of his first few games. 

 

I didnt realise how anti-Spence i've become!

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

1 minute ago, boksicdink said:

But we can talk about how Blackburn scored their goal if you'd prefer? Spence drifting into the middle taking Howson's man and then ball watching as Rothwell peels off to score not to mention the guy at the back post Spence should have been marking who would have tapped in if Rothwell hadnt. 

So Spence is the problem because he's come inside to take Howson's problem away from him and not kept up with him, as opposed to Howson who has given Spence his responsibility and seemingly become a statue as a result?

Howson does absolutely nothing to justify having the responsibility of Rothwell taken away from him. If he's asked Spence to come inside to take his man from him then at that point, why isn't he expecting the danger from the far side of the pitch? That's his right back, all 3 of his other defenders have at some point in the previous 2 seconds been right in his eye-line so he knows there's nobody behind him. So if Howson has asked Spence to come inside then refused to deal with the cross, that's on Howson.

This is the man who is by and large spending his time on the pitch in defensive areas cleaning up after people and he seems to just stop thinking. The ball is coming across him by the penalty spot. Even if Spence comes with Rothwell, there's not a chance he shouldn't be attacking that ball.

[AstoriaBoro 152]

12 minutes ago, Smogzilla said:

Darnell Fischer was banned for bollock grabbing earlier in the season wasn't he? Great stuff

What’s wrong with that, we’ve all got that 1 male friend that loves a grab and fiddle when out with the boys or on the pitch ... that might be me in my group 😏.

[boksicdink 1,942]

1 minute ago, wilsoncgp said:

So Spence is the problem because he's come inside to take Howson's problem away from him and not kept up with him, as opposed to Howson who has given Spence his responsibility and seemingly become a statue as a result?

Howson does absolutely nothing to justify having the responsibility of Rothwell taken away from him. If he's asked Spence to come inside to take his man from him then at that point, why isn't he expecting the danger from the far side of the pitch? That's his right back, all 3 of his other defenders have at some point in the previous 2 seconds been right in his eye-line so he knows there's nobody behind him. So if Howson has asked Spence to come inside then refused to deal with the cross, that's on Howson.

This is the man who is by and large spending his time on the pitch in defensive areas cleaning up after people and he seems to just stop thinking. The ball is coming across him by the penalty spot. Even if Spence comes with Rothwell, there's not a chance he shouldn't be attacking that ball.

I think both are at fault to some degree and i'm not defending Howson btw.

Howson looks at Spence, sees that they are marking the same guy and passes him off when he should have actually told him to move out to the guy unmarked on the right wing and marked that guy himself. 

Spence's error is being there in the first place and then compounds it by ball watching. 

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

4 minutes ago, boksicdink said:

Tav is supposed to mark Douglas and Spence is supposed to be marking Brereton IMO. Spence turning up there switches Howson off as there is a moment jsut before where Howson recognises they are both marking the same man and drops off. 

For me Howson is at fault for not moving Spence back out wide and Spence is at fault for being there in the first place (and subsequent ball watching) 

The problem is Howson doesn't actually drop off, he doesn't drop with the defensive line because he stays pretty much exactly where he is in this picture. He makes one backwards movement then he stops and watches as the ball rolls past him.

[DanFromDownSouth 1,706]

41 minutes ago, boksicdink said:

Using some statistics produced by someone who has been paying attention, on average this season, Djed Spence loses the ball 15.9 times a game across all competitions this season and on average he wins a tackle 0.7 times per game.

Loses possession per 90 fewer times than Bola (18.60) and Dijksteel (17.20) in the league. 👀
Has a tackle won % of 53.8% compared to Bola's 65% and Dijksteel's 66.6%, but factor in that Bola and Dijksteel attempt around 2 tackles per 90 where as Spence attempts only 1.3 per 90.

Interestingly using the Whoscored Spence has more key passes per 90 out of all 3.
And Spence has the highest accurate cross percentage of the 3 of them.
Spence - 6 accurate crosses, 33 inaccurate = 18.18%
Bola - 7 accurate crosses, 50 inaccurate = 12.28%
Dijksteel - 1 accurate cross, 16 inaccurate = 5.88%

Spence could of course improve defensively, but what defender at 20 (and less than 60 first team games) is the finished article. The main gripe I have with him at the moment is sometimes his positioning inplay, but that will develop over time and through actually playing. Statistically he holds up pretty well defensively and in an output sense compared to Bola and Dijksteel.

[DurhamRed 2,046]

Billy Gilmore be epic signing

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

Defensively last night, we were no better on the left side than the right. McNair was just as bad as Wood in particular and that seems to have passed people by a bit.

[TLF10 4,489]

11 minutes ago, boksicdink said:

My mate connected with Chelsea said we are in dreamland if we think we are getting him

With all respect your chelsea mate needs to read the latest media rumours which are being widely reported which suggests there might be some truth in it. 
 

Apparently Gilmour has asked Chelsea to be loaned out as he wants to guarantee a place in Scotlands Euro squad and suggestion is he wants to go somewhere where he guaranteed game time and I think his best chance of that is top end Championship which we currently are. A lower end PL team fighting for survival probably are not gonna offer a 19yr old loanee game time every week.

if he free and we are interested I would say we got a decent chance of getting him as any other interested party has. We hardly asked Chelsea if they want to loan us Mount or Pulisic. 

[Changing Times 12,337]

22 minutes ago, boksicdink said:

We obviously see this differently and we arent going to talk each other round but I would like to see Spence play with some more positional and situational awareness than he is showing. He is still young and could learn but for me he loses the ball high up the pitch and leaves us short at the back and he regularly drifts into centre midfield to pick up the ball when we are in possession, which with 3 CMs should be the last place he is drawn to. 

But we can talk about how Blackburn scored their goal if you'd prefer? Spence drifting into the middle taking Howson's man and then ball watching as Rothwell peels off to score not to mention the guy at the back post Spence should have been marking who would have tapped in if Rothwell hadnt. 

He didn't take Howson's man.  Spence was marking his man, which was Rothwell, and that's why he ended up where he was on the pitch.  Howson at first tracked Armstrong and then left him because that isn't his man. and neither is Rothwell either.  He then looked at where Rothwell was and changed direction to move towards our area when he thought Rothwell was going to run behind him but he didn't make the run.  Howson did the right thing there, cos there was danger in that potential run.  However,  at that point Howson switches off completely, despite the fact that he is the last man at that point, and all he's doing is watching the ball.  There are no excuses for what he did, if you're the last man in your own area then you don't just stop playing like that.  Spence then lost his man, which is what I criticised him for, but that goal would have been stopped if Howson didn't do what he often does and just stops playing and doesn't react.  He actually did the same thing last night for the penalty, go and have a look.  Three Boro players - Saville, Wood and Howson, marking three Rotherham players - look what Howson does, he's yards behind where he should be and we then have two marking three and their spare man is the one who wins the penalty.  If that was Spence doing it game after game and actually being responsible for goals he would be getting his *** kicked on here.  Howson has been doing it for ages, even into last season I was highlighting it, and people continually ignore it and blame other players.

I would also like to see Spence play with more positional and situational awareness though, I have no problem agreeing with you on that.  But I know that some of his wandering is down to what he has been asked to do, not him just choosing to move off.  If you are told to mark a man and that man moves inside then you go with him, I'm not sure I agree that's what we should be doing but that's the manager making that call.  To me he is a very raw player but I see his potential as an attacking fullback.  That's going to require some actual coaching and development though, I'm not under any illusions that he's there yet at all, I just get sick of certain players getting hammered for every little thing and others getting away with it.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Changing Times

[boksicdink 1,942]

4 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Loses possession per 90 fewer times than Bola (18.60) and Dijksteel (17.20) in the league. 👀
Has a tackle won % of 53.8% compared to Bola's 65% and Dijksteel's 66.6%, but factor in that Bola and Dijksteel attempt around 2 tackles per 90 where as Spence attempts only 1.3 per 90.

Interestingly using the Whoscored Spence has more key passes per 90 out of all 3.
And Spence has the highest accurate cross percentage of the 3 of them.
Spence - 6 accurate crosses, 33 inaccurate = 18.18%
Bola - 7 accurate crosses, 50 inaccurate = 12.28%
Dijksteel - 1 accurate cross, 16 inaccurate = 5.88%

Spence could of course improve defensively, but what defender at 20 (and less than 60 first team games) is the finished article. The main gripe I have with him at the moment is sometimes his positioning inplay, but that will develop over time and through actually playing. Statistically he holds up pretty well defensively and in an output sense compared to Bola and Dijksteel.

Haha this is the problem when bringing stats into discussions!

Totally agree on the defensive positioning which is my main issue with him too. I know we as a team play the percentages with crosses etc which is going to have an effect. for some reason when Spence loses the ball it always feels a bit more glaring, perhaps as he is always trying to take people on? 

I know Spence is  young but he seems so far off defensively for me. 

[GrimsbyBoro 1,968]

Would have to say that looking at the Blackburn goal it’s Spence at fault. He initially sees the danger comes inside gets on the wrong side of his man and lets him run off him. 
 

Howson is blind to it all. I would have like him to have gone a bit deeper when Blackburn went wide but other than that I would be looking at Spence on this one.