Stoke v Boro 1-0

[Oslo_Syd 320]

We have six matches to go before the end of the year, all of which are winnable. But I hope that Gibson is going to open his wallet on 1 January because we badly need strengthening.

[CrazyL 2,565]

We have played all 9 of the teams above us and only 7 of the 14 below. The next few weeks will tell us if we have a genuine crack at the play offs or are just mid table.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

58 minutes ago, CrazyL said:

5 months ago, first match after lockdown against Swansea, we were so bad it was beyond belief. At that point we were 100% destined for league 1 in my opinion. Warnock saved us and, after a single (very difficult window) we are 10th and have conceded 11 goals in 16 games. We have an outside chance of  the play-offs although the intensity of the season is likely to catch up with such a small squad. After that Swansea game I personally would have been gobsmacked if somebody told me that we’d be where we are now. The folk on here this evening who are piling into the manager need to give their heads a shake. The irony in them calling Warnock delusional is staggering.

You, thinking it's a shock that this squad, not much changed since Pulis, has gone from challenging for the play-offs to near relegation under a rookie manager, to now be challenging for play-offs again after that rookie left... that's where the irony lies when throwing the word delusional around.

One season of near relegation under a manager with no experience has made some Boro fans think we're not much better than Rotherham, Luton, Wycombe, Coventry, Barnsley, that our expectations shouldn't be much bigger than sides like that (with the greatest of respect to them). Luton sitting 5 points off the play-offs is punching above their weight and fair play to them. Us being 2 points in front of them is not a miracle in any way, shape or form.

Warnock is doing an alright job, don't get me wrong. But like Pulis before him, missing out on the playoffs with the quality in our squad would be a failure and to be fair to those who think that is delusional, I reckon Warnock will feel the same way. He already comes out about some players saying things like Howson is as good as any midfielder in his role in the Prem, he thinks this squad could be a little bigger and stronger in one or two areas but with all his experience he sees a squad that should be pushing for a top 6 finish. This from the man who once said it would be a bloody miracle if Cardiff survived relegation when he took them up. I think unlike Pulis, you often do get quite a bit of honesty out of Warnock, honest feelings however much you agree or disagree with him.

[CrazyL 2,565]

3 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

You, thinking it's a shock that this squad, not much changed since Pulis, has gone from challenging for the play-offs to near relegation under a rookie manager, to now be challenging for play-offs again after that rookie left... that's where the irony lies when throwing the word delusional around.

One season of near relegation under a manager with no experience has made some Boro fans think we're not much better than Rotherham, Luton, Wycombe, Coventry, Barnsley, that our expectations shouldn't be much bigger than sides like that (with the greatest of respect to them). Luton sitting 5 points off the play-offs is punching above their weight and fair play to them. Us being 2 points in front of them is not a miracle in any way, shape or form.

Warnock is doing an alright job, don't get me wrong. But like Pulis before him, missing out on the playoffs with the quality in our squad would be a failure and to be fair to those who think that is delusional, I reckon Warnock will feel the same way. He already comes out about some players saying things like Howson is as good as any midfielder in his role in the Prem, he thinks this squad could be a little bigger and stronger in one or two areas but with all his experience he sees a squad that should be pushing for a top 6 finish. This from the man who once said it would be a bloody miracle if Cardiff survived relegation when he took them up. I think unlike Pulis, you often do get quite a bit of honesty out of Warnock, honest feelings however much you agree or disagree with him.

Cobblers. To suggest Warnock inherited the same circumstances and squad as Pulis is utter nonsense.

[DanFromDownSouth 1,706]

3 minutes ago, CrazyL said:

Cobblers.

Lost 2-0 today.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

33 minutes ago, Uwe said:

In my Whole day to day life I only ever here the word delusional on this forum 🤷‍♂️

Well politics and football can make people like that. 😁

[DurhamRed 2,047]

We should beat every other side we play until Norwich end January to be honest. We have a great run of games. If we win 7 of the next 9 easy games we be in top 6 

Edited December 5, 2020 by DurhamRed

[Snowblind 1,734]

I've got to say, I understand both @wilsoncgpand @CrazyL on this one.

 

This squad is good enough to be challenging towards the Top 6. The squad we had last season was too, but Woody was an abysmal manager who hadn't a single idea about tactics or motivation of players as a manager. 

However, this squad is far from the quality that Pulis inherited. The top teams in this season's league are also of far better quality than those we faced during TP's reign. Pulis should've been challenging for automatic promotion with that squad, and fell short. Woodgate should've been challenging for the Top 6, and failed dismally. Warnock should be challenging towards the Top 6, and is doing okay. Thus far. There's still plenty of football to be played, and there's still time for that to change either way.

One factor which is massive is the sheer volume of games this season. Now more than ever before it's a squad game. The schedule is mental. That's a factor which is more considerable than it was during the TP and JW eras. 

[sanddancer 1,967]

1 hour ago, CrazyL said:

Every big stadium in the country has much poorer facilities for the away team than the home. It is 100% done on purpose to affect performance. So it might have. 

[Rioch's Braves 711]

1 hour ago, TeaCider24 said:

I expect it's managing Watmore's fitness.

From his own interview before the match, he didn't sound confident that he could manage too many games in a row without injury.

So I'm not sure playing 2 in a row after so long out of the game would be wise going off those comments.

See where your coming from but he was subbed after 68 mins against Swansea so not a full game and had 2 full days to recover, so I would have started with him.

[sanddancer 1,967]

36 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

I've got to say, I understand both @wilsoncgpand @CrazyL on this one.

 

This squad is good enough to be challenging towards the Top 6. The squad we had last season was too, but Woody was an abysmal manager who hadn't a single idea about tactics or motivation of players as a manager. 

However, this squad is far from the quality that Pulis inherited. The top teams in this season's league are also of far better quality than those we faced during TP's reign. Pulis should've been challenging for automatic promotion with that squad, and fell short. Woodgate should've been challenging for the Top 6, and failed dismally. Warnock should be challenging towards the Top 6, and is doing okay. Thus far. There's still plenty of football to be played, and there's still time for that to change either way.

One factor which is massive is the sheer volume of games this season. Now more than ever before it's a squad game. The schedule is mental. That's a factor which is more considerable than it was during the TP and JW eras. 

But the fact is, everyone is in the same boat.. 

I do wish people will stop looking for excuses and admit we are not as good as some think we are. With international breaks It’s got nothing to do with tiredness, the squad size is not an issue, yet, as is apparent leaving subs sitting on the bench.
NW does make mistakes and we have seen then in draws that could have been turned into wins, loses as today that could at least produce a point. 
 

We have a manager and squad more inline with what the club can afford to give the town which is reflected in the quality of players and size of squad the club can afford, but mistakes are being made. 
Its not the end of the road and I’ll wager we will do what we have for a number of years, hope and pray for good news and pray next season will be better then the last. 
That my dear friends is about as good as a BORO supporter can expect. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by sanddancer

[Snowblind 1,734]

4 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

But the fact is, everyone is in the same boat.. 

I do wish people will stop looking for excuses and admit we are not as good as some think we are. With international breaks It’s got nothing to do with tiredness, the squad size is not an issue, yet, as is apparent leaving subs sitting on the bench.
NW does make mistakes and we have seen then in draws that could have been turned into wins, loses as today that could at least produce a point. 
 

we have a manager and squad more to do with what the club can afford to give the town which is reflected in the quality of players and size of squad the club can afford, but mistakes are being made. 
Its not the end of the road and I’ll wager we will do what we have for a number of years, hope and pray for good news and pray next season will be better then the last. 
That my dear friends is about as good as a BORO supporter can expect. 

That first sentence had me thinking "... Tory" 😂 Only mean that comedically like!

It's not the same.boat though, is it? That's like saying everyone's in the same boat regarding work that they were in 2019. Or that Warnock is in the same boat as McClaren was just because it's the same club. Or Karanka was just because it's the same league. It's not excuses. It's reality. It's looking at the given circumstances. It's looking at the facts.

Yes, Warnock makes mistakes. All managers do at every level. I'm personally not a Warnock fan (I'd go as far as to say I've loathed him at times before he was here). But there's few managers within our reach with the circumstances as they are now - as you say, with the circumstances of what we can afford and attract - who you could anywhere near guarantee would have us where we are now. Jokanovic might've had us higher, but the reality ia we couldn't afford him. Woodgate speaks for himself. Another appointments like Agnew would've likely spoken for itself. 

With the given circumstances under Warnock, were (currently) doing okay. With the given circumstances under Woodgate, we were a failure. With the given circumstances under Pulis, we fell short. That's the crux of it. 

[CrazyL 2,565]

42 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

But the fact is, everyone is in the same boat.. 

I do wish people will stop looking for excuses and admit we are not as good as some think we are. With international breaks It’s got nothing to do with tiredness, the squad size is not an issue, yet, as is apparent leaving subs sitting on the bench.
NW does make mistakes and we have seen then in draws that could have been turned into wins, loses as today that could at least produce a point. 
 

We have a manager and squad more inline with what the club can afford to give the town which is reflected in the quality of players and size of squad the club can afford, but mistakes are being made. 
Its not the end of the road and I’ll wager we will do what we have for a number of years, hope and pray for good news and pray next season will be better then the last. 
That my dear friends is about as good as a BORO supporter can expect. 

If everyone is in the same boat why did Ben Gibson join Norwich instead of Middlesbrough?

[sanddancer 1,967]

19 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

That first sentence had me thinking "... Tory" 😂 Only mean that comedically like!

It's not the same.boat though, is it? That's like saying everyone's in the same boat regarding work that they were in 2019. Or that Warnock is in the same boat as McClaren was just because it's the same club. Or Karanka was just because it's the same league. It's not excuses. It's reality. It's looking at the given circumstances. It's looking at the facts.

Yes, Warnock makes mistakes. All managers do at every level. I'm personally not a Warnock fan (I'd go as far as to say I've loathed him at times before he was here). But there's few managers within our reach with the circumstances as they are now - as you say, with the circumstances of what we can afford and attract - who you could anywhere near guarantee would have us where we are now. Jokanovic might've had us higher, but the reality ia we couldn't afford him. Woodgate speaks for himself. Another appointments like Agnew would've likely spoken for itself. 

With the given circumstances under Warnock, were (currently) doing okay. With the given circumstances under Woodgate, we were a failure. With the given circumstances under Pulis, we fell short. That's the crux of it. 
 

 

I guess the point I’m making is we are not entitled to anything, and we need to work and earn the right because all clubs have challenges and we are no different.
I don’t accept many of the excuses especially to-date related to tiredness or small squad which I previously explained. I do think NW is vulnerable and makes mistakes with team selections and is overly cautious but I don’t think him a bad manager.

I do accept we are a small club challenging other equal clubs in a tough league were you must work your a**e off for respect and points. NW must take most of the blame but the players are not performing anywhere near the money they are paid. 
It is hard and I’m as disappointed and as pumped up as anyone else but as a long term BORO supporter it’s part and parcel. 

[sanddancer 1,967]

8 minutes ago, CrazyL said:

If everyone is in the same boat why did Ben Gibson join Norwich instead of Middlesbrough?

In the same boat as in games to be played, as in the schedule dictated. 
I don’t believe we had the option of signing him but you could search for the answer yourself. Why didn’t you ask yourself why didn’t he join any of the other clubs? 

Edited December 5, 2020 by sanddancer