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Play-off Rivals...


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19 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

A lot of assumptions being made to get those 6 points. If our goal had stood yesterday Swansea might have picked up the pace again and beat us anyway. They sat back and let us have the ball when they went ahead. 

Blackburn the incident happened at 0-0. You'd have liked our chances to beat them against 10 men and with a penalty but nothing is guaranteed. 

Point is, the ref was garbage in both games but one incident doesn't decide any game and you can't say with any degree of certainty that we would be 6 points better off. 

Ifs and buts ... If my mother had a propeller on her head, she might be an Apache helicopter..

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8 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

I don't think so.

We were better than Swansea before they scored, we were better than them after they scored.

I would bet my savings on us beating Blackburn if they'd been down to 10 men and we'd be 1-0 up.

That one incident did decide the Blackburn game, and there was more than one incident in the Swansea game.

I did say ignoring butterflies, as obviously we have no idea how things would pan out in the intervening matches between the refereeing shockers.

It's a 46 game season, but often the margins are so tight that one or two games can decide it.

Even under Pulis, we missed out on the play-offs by 1 point, we had a man wrongly sent off against Preston whilst winning, and went on to lose that game. The ref gets that decision right and Pulis may not have ended the season as a failure.

These things tend to even themselves out over a season. There are plenty of decisions that have gone our way, there are some that have gone against us. We’ve scored a couple of “offside” goals that have counted this season and nobody has cared. 

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4 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

These things tend to even themselves out over a season. There are plenty of decisions that have gone our way, there are some that have gone against us. We’ve scored a couple of “offside” goals that have counted this season and nobody has cared. 

Not saying you're wrong, but could you name one?

I genuinely cannot remember a single offside goal counting for us. 

I can remember multiple "offside" goals being disallowed for us though. The one against Reading sticks out most.

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My memory isn’t that great but I do remember us scoring and the general consensus was that it was offside it was earlier in the season. Some were saying that yesterday’s goal was offside too.

As I say, these things even out and the best teams succeed regardless of refereeing decisions over the course of a season. The ref made an awful decision yesterday, but it’s just one of those things. The fact that he’s being harassed by Boro fans on social media is embarrassing and wrong.

Our players made mistakes to concede the goal; Howson and Bola with that ridiculous backwards header and Mendez Laing with that storming run towards his own goal! You could argue that without those 2 mistakes we could have won 1-0. 
 

 

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Just on the topic of referees, I'm watching the rugby, and Quins scored a try. They check it using the Video ref, but the on field ref (who is mic'd up), explains what he saw and what he thinks. Then watches the replay and changes his mind and again explains why he has reversed his decision.

I wonder if half the problem with VAR in football is that we can't hear the reasoning behind what the on-field ref and the video ref are thinking. Just a thought.

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2 hours ago, Johnny A said:

I can still remember his rant about Tevez and Mascerano's suspicious appearance for West Ham which sent Sheff Utd down. Seemingly nothing to do with Sheff Utd were there because they had been crap all season. 

Sheffield Utd were stitched up by the FA courtesy of their incestuous love affair with World Cup winning West Ham. Had it been an unfashionable Northern side the punishment would have been matched the crime.

West Ham should have been relegated or as a minimum given a points deduction but were given a £5.5m fine instead of the points deduction for breaking third-party ownership rules. It was blatant and deliberate cheating, nothing more nothing less. West Ham won games and points over that season that they wouldn't have won had the two Argentinians not been playing for them.

I'm guessing you don't recall Harry shooting his mouth off when Boro failed to turn up at Blackburn desperate for us to have points deducted to save his Hammer's status.

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14 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Sheffield Utd were stitched up by the FA courtesy of their incestuous love affair with World Cup winning West Ham. Had it been an unfashionable Northern side the punishment would have been matched the crime.

West Ham should have been relegated or as a minimum given a points deduction but were given a £5.5m fine instead of the points deduction for breaking third-party ownership rules. It was blatant and deliberate cheating, nothing more nothing less. West Ham won games and points over that season that they wouldn't have won had the two Argentinians not been playing for them.

I'm guessing you don't recall Harry shooting his mouth off when Boro failed to turn up at Blackburn desperate for us to have points deducted to save his Hammer's status.

I certainly do remember the Blackburn incident. I was trying to make the point that over a season the ifs and buts should even themselves out. Others have made that point. And another aspect that has been alluded to is that if the disallowed goal had stood, the game has a different restart and will be completely different.

I hate when pundits say someone who has hit the bar 3 times in a game ' could have had a hat -trick'. The 2nd and 3rd attempts wouldn't have happened if the first had gone in!

(But after all that, it was a bloody perfectly legitimate goal!!!!)

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I know it's not a well liked thought amongst a lot, but could it be that the reason why we're not close to the playoffs is down to Warnock and the players? Trying to blame the refs for all our shortcomings on the pitch is just a bit pathetic to me. We are where we are because of our own shortcomings and that can't be dismissed with some ifs and buts about games where the ref hasn't seen our way. 

Frankly I think Warnocks antics on the sideline is beginning to be a bit embarrasing at times. I think it was Humpty who mentioned it, and I'd agree that his constant bickering and making himself out to be a victim all the time is detrimental to us. There are games where he spends more time shouting at the ref and argueing with the 4th official than actually managing the team. There is very little class about him on the sidelines and it's naive to think that the refs don't notice that.

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I've written our chances off now, after the robbery, so I would love Barnsley to heavily beat Derby tomorrow.

It'd put them 4 points clear of 7th with 11 games left, which would be great for such a small club and a credit to their manager.

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Swansea's Ayew with another penalty goal - Not the most convincing penalty, Kaminski may well have got a hand to it, but the ball creeps over the line.

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I've been thinking Swansea form could drop off a cliff and we replace them in the playoffs as if we win like 10 of the 11 games get to 80 points is possible we replace them on last day season in 6th place be good karma that. 

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10 hours ago, DurhamRed said:

I've been thinking Swansea form could drop off a cliff and we replace them in the playoffs as if we win like 10 of the 11 games get to 80 points is possible we replace them on last day season in 6th place be good karma that. 

Hmmmmm let me see    wishful and thinking come to mind!

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On 3/7/2021 at 3:33 PM, DanFromDownSouth said:

Just on the topic of referees, I'm watching the rugby, and Quins scored a try. They check it using the Video ref, but the on field ref (who is mic'd up), explains what he saw and what he thinks. Then watches the replay and changes his mind and again explains why he has reversed his decision.

I wonder if half the problem with VAR in football is that we can't hear the reasoning behind what the on-field ref and the video ref are thinking. Just a thought.

I don't think it would help if they still gave a blatantly incorrect decision.

Being able to hear the official's explanations only help if the end decision makes sense.

 

I've mentioned before that the standard of refereeing in rugby (and cricket) seems to be generally better in any case and the decisions more often than not reflect what is seen in the replays. Whereas in football there are still a lot of controversial decisions made even with VAR.

Might just further highlight the incompetence of the refs...or prove beyond doubt that the rules of the game need changing, if they are in fact applying the letter of the law?

 

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23 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

I don't think it would help if they still gave a blatantly incorrect decision.

Being able to hear the official's explanations only help if the end decision makes sense.

 

I've mentioned before that the standard of refereeing in rugby (and cricket) seems to be generally better in any case and the decisions more often than not reflect what is seen in the replays. Whereas in football there are still a lot of controversial decisions made even with VAR.

Might just further highlight the incompetence of the refs...or prove beyond doubt that the rules of the game need changing, if they are in fact applying the letter of the law?

 

Bad decisions still get made in both sports, but the marginal calls where it is one way or another by the finest of margins, it helps understanding hearing the referees thought process. If it is an absolute clanger it doesn't really matter if you can hear them or not! 😂

Personally I think the laws are upto interpretation too much in football. A few weekends ago in the Premiership Rugby there was a spate of about 5/6 red cards all for the same thing, the decisions being made were to the letter of the law and there was no wiggle room, same offence same punishment, no ambiguity. Whereas in football you take 5/6 identical incidents and you'll probably end up having 2 players red carded, 2 booked and 2 told to play on.

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