Derby v Boro 2-1 (Kebano)

[DurhamRed 2,047]

The midfield 3 doesn't work as we still can't retain position better having 2 up top when basically the game plan is. Bettinali boots it up field by luck it drops to our wide man who runs hopefully beats his man crosses and by a mirical connects with our striker and we score. 

[TheJew 2,938]

Are we in the realms of Mike Bassett... 4 4 fookin 2.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

I really find it difficult to believe Warnock looked at our team yesterday and came out believing the fault was that he doesn't have a good striker. Imagine being Britt or Fletch in that dressing room right now, a few months from the end of your contract, you're probably just sat waiting for it to fizzle out so you can find a manager who does want you more than Warnock does.

Didn't he say Akpom was his first choice striker too? Does any Boro fan believe right now that Chuba Akpom was Neil Warnock's first choice to play in his preferred formation? Not even taking his level of quality into account, the lad has been in and out of the team every other week.

I've pushed off suggestions this is similar to Pulis in the past but pinning the blame on strikers and the lack of quality up front in a team which doesn't create anywhere near enough chances for them absolutely is like it was under Pulis. We might not be sat in our own half at all times with plodding central midfielders and centre backs in wide areas like Pulis had but ultimately we're still not creating chances for our strikers and blaming them for it.

[Redcar Rioja 5,976]

Regarding Britt and man management Warnock made him Club Captain and even that hasn't worked. I think it's reached the point where Warnock now realises what many of us realised some time ago in that Britt is very limited full stop. Why he still selects him is a real mystery however as his tactics are the total opposite of what Britt needs to function. Akpom is just a budget Britt, same skill set and style and consequently like Britt  he doesn't fit with hoof ball and no support or service. Why he was brought in doesn't make sense.

Strangely football managers seem to all develop this entrenched mental frailty. When it's going wrong instead of admitting and addressing things they just dig themselves in deeper and keep doing what isn't working only they keep doing it harder. We have witnessed it with Strachan, Mowbray, Karanka and Pulis. What once worked becomes flawed and stale, opposition managers suss the monotonous predictability and then counter it. The frustrated football manager digs his heels in deeper and instead of stepping back and evaluating why he just hits the screw head even harder rather than admitting that a screwdriver may actually work better. 

It's great when things are working but then what? Past results and history are all well and good but it's what happens when the thing breaks down that sorts out the great from the OK, the mediocre and the poor.

[Neverbefore 10,942]

Having watched Fulham and how they play last night, this must be a real culture shock for kebano. They play some lovely football, have just missed a finisher most of the season.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

5 hours ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Regarding Britt and man management Warnock made him Club Captain and even that hasn't worked. I think it's reached the point where Warnock now realises what many of us realised some time ago in that Britt is very limited full stop. Why he still selects him is a real mystery however as his tactics are the total opposite of what Britt needs to function. Akpom is just a budget Britt, same skill set and style and consequently like Britt  he doesn't fit with hoof ball and no support or service. Why he was brought in doesn't make sense.

Strangely football managers seem to all develop this entrenched mental frailty. When it's going wrong instead of admitting and addressing things they just dig themselves in deeper and keep doing what isn't working only they keep doing it harder. We have witnessed it with Strachan, Mowbray, Karanka and Pulis. What once worked becomes flawed and stale, opposition managers suss the monotonous predictability and then counter it. The frustrated football manager digs his heels in deeper and instead of stepping back and evaluating why he just hits the screw head even harder rather than admitting that a screwdriver may actually work better. 

It's great when things are working but then what? Past results and history are all well and good but it's what happens when the thing breaks down that sorts out the great from the OK, the mediocre and the poor.

I've never understood why managers become so inextricably wedded to one style of play.

I'm just an armchair fan who's never studied the game in depth, as a few folks on here appear to have. But even back in my Football Manager days, when my teams stopped getting results, I'd try and change things around.

Provided you don't put players in completely alien positions and expect them to do something they've never done before, it shouldn't be impossible to get them to adapt to different formations & tactics (again, isn't that part of the reason for having a coaching staff?).

 

[AnglianRed 6,320]

2 hours ago, Neverbefore said:

Having watched Fulham and how they play last night, this must be a real culture shock for kebano. They play some lovely football, have just missed a finisher most of the season.

He must already be glad its just a loan move until the end of the season.

 

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

1 hour ago, AnglianRed said:

I've never understood why managers become so inextricably wedded to one style of play.

I'm just an armchair fan who's never studied the game in depth, as a few folks on here appear to have. But even back in my Football Manager days, when my teams stopped getting results, I'd try and change things around.

Provided you don't put players in completely alien positions and expect them to do something they've never done before, it shouldn't be impossible to get them to adapt to different formations & tactics (again, isn't that part of the reason for having a coaching staff?).

Well, when it comes to Warnock, he's been in the game a long time, has by and large stuck with his style of play and it's provided success. Do something a certain way and get success over a long period of time, at the very least I think it's understandable why he sticks with it. That's a pretty good feedback loop for him as an individual and his team. It's not like it was always inevitable success, he's had rough times but still came through them doing it his way.

Worth comparing to Pulis too. He came into our club with a reputation for success but the recent reputation was built from a success of keeping clubs in the Premier League. Warnock's reputation of success is much more aligned with what we need, promotion from the Championship. So whilst Pulis should have maybe thought more about what he needed to change, I understand more why Warnock sticks with it.

Still think we should change the way we set up formation-wise and I'm not really a fan of the direct style of play but we've seen evidence of his tactics working this season. Whilst he's here I think it's more about how he fits the players he has into a working formation than about changing the style of play in order to achieve success.

[Downsouth 6,327]

2 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Well, when it comes to Warnock, he's been in the game a long time, has by and large stuck with his style of play and it's provided success. Do something a certain way and get success over a long period of time, at the very least I think it's understandable why he sticks with it. That's a pretty good feedback loop for him as an individual and his team. It's not like it was always inevitable success, he's had rough times but still came through them doing it his way.

Worth comparing to Pulis too. He came into our club with a reputation for success but the recent reputation was built from a success of keeping clubs in the Premier League. Warnock's reputation of success is much more aligned with what we need, promotion from the Championship. So whilst Pulis should have maybe thought more about what he needed to change, I understand more why Warnock sticks with it.

Still think we should change the way we set up formation-wise and I'm not really a fan of the direct style of play but we've seen evidence of his tactics working this season. Whilst he's here I think it's more about how he fits the players he has into a working formation than about changing the style of play in order to achieve success.

Sadly because we all know that we could indeed be doing a lot better!

[AnglianRed 6,320]

2 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Well, when it comes to Warnock, he's been in the game a long time, has by and large stuck with his style of play and it's provided success. Do something a certain way and get success over a long period of time, at the very least I think it's understandable why he sticks with it. That's a pretty good feedback loop for him as an individual and his team. It's not like it was always inevitable success, he's had rough times but still came through them doing it his way.

Worth comparing to Pulis too. He came into our club with a reputation for success but the recent reputation was built from a success of keeping clubs in the Premier League. Warnock's reputation of success is much more aligned with what we need, promotion from the Championship. So whilst Pulis should have maybe thought more about what he needed to change, I understand more why Warnock sticks with it.

Still think we should change the way we set up formation-wise and I'm not really a fan of the direct style of play but we've seen evidence of his tactics working this season. Whilst he's here I think it's more about how he fits the players he has into a working formation than about changing the style of play in order to achieve success.

Well, to go back to what some were saying earlier, I'm not sure he can continue with his favoured set-up, simply because it demands strikers who can act as target men and hold the ball up.

Since none of ours seem to be capable of that, the situation dictates that he changes the system we play to one that suits them better.

As you said yourself, there's no point in him complaining about the recruiting (or lack of it) in the forward department. He may be long in the tooth and set in his ways, but he should also have acquired enough nous to know when to stop flogging a dead horse.

Even more so when we're playing with a weakened defence and suspect keeper who don't need the extra pressure of continually giving possession away.

Football managers, like military leaders, need to be flexible and adapt to changing situations. Like the old army axoim goes, "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy". So when Plan A doesn't work, there needs to be a Plan B and even a Plan C if necessary.

Though Warnock isn't the first manager we've said that about either.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

2 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

Well, to go back to what some were saying earlier, I'm not sure he can continue with his favoured set-up, simply because it demands strikers who can act as target men and hold the ball up.

Since none of ours seem to be capable of that, the situation dictates that he changes the system we play to one that suits them better.

As you said yourself, there's no point in him complaining about the recruiting (or lack of it) in the forward department. He may be long in the tooth and set in his ways, but he should also have acquired enough nous to know when to stop flogging a dead horse.

Even more so when we're playing with a weakened defence and suspect keeper who don't need the extra pressure of continually giving possession away.

Football managers, like military leaders, need to be flexible and adapt to changing situations. Like the old army axoim goes, "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy". So when Plan A doesn't work, there needs to be a Plan B and even a Plan C if necessary.

Though Warnock isn't the first manager we've said that about either.

Point I'm making though is he sticks to his plan and that gets him success. He might change the odd thing here or there but by and large he won't divert from a plan that has given him such great success at this level in the past. He'll see that stubbornness as a good quality in the long run. And whilst we might argue with how well it works for us in the end, we can't really argue with how well it worked for him elsewhere.

[sanddancer 1,967]

15 hours ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Regarding Britt and man management Warnock made him Club Captain and even that hasn't worked. I think it's reached the point where Warnock now realises what many of us realised some time ago in that Britt is very limited full stop. Why he still selects him is a real mystery however as his tactics are the total opposite of what Britt needs to function. Akpom is just a budget Britt, same skill set and style and consequently like Britt  he doesn't fit with hoof ball and no support or service. Why he was brought in doesn't make sense.

Strangely football managers seem to all develop this entrenched mental frailty. When it's going wrong instead of admitting and addressing things they just dig themselves in deeper and keep doing what isn't working only they keep doing it harder. We have witnessed it with Strachan, Mowbray, Karanka and Pulis. What once worked becomes flawed and stale, opposition managers suss the monotonous predictability and then counter it. The frustrated football manager digs his heels in deeper and instead of stepping back and evaluating why he just hits the screw head even harder rather than admitting that a screwdriver may actually work better. 

It's great when things are working but then what? Past results and history are all well and good but it's what happens when the thing breaks down that sorts out the great from the OK, the mediocre and the poor.

Oh very very well put. Absolutely spot on...