A new direction and a change of style?

[TeaCider24 12,614]

I think the most important decision the owner can make is the manager, and as long as a club is financially stable, the owner doesn't play that much of a part beyond financing signings.

Gibson has made some very poor appointments in the past 15 years.

Southgate, Strachan, Monk, Agnew, Woodgate were all terrible appointments.

Karanka was a big success.

I'd buck the popular opinion and say that Pulis didn't do too badly here, that 6 game losing run blew it, and some of those losses were down to shocking refereeing decisions. Flip one and we'd have been in the play-offs.

Warnock saved us last season, and has done okay this season.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

39 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I don't think anyone is claiming that changing ownership automatically means that the club spirals down the football pyramid or ceases to exist I think what is being highlighted is that it doesn't guarantee instant success. There are plenty of Clubs who have changed owners and it hasn't worked out or at least just yet as Birmingham, Blackburn and Forest fans will attest to.

It seems some want Gibson to sell the club but should he sell it to the highest bidder to cover as much debt as he has accrued with MFC or to the most altruistic bidder with a guarantee that he or she will invest in a top Latin Coach and £300 million on players? 

I remember when football was a sport and the best team won rather than the richest team won. Personally I'd rather we play our way to the top and earn it and the truth is that even with a multi billionaire owner it is unlikely that we will usurp the mega rich in their Champions League placings. I know Leicester did it in a similar way to how Blackburn once did it (and to a lesser extent ourselves) but the Manchester, Merseyside and London Clubs have always dominated.

I remember when football was a sport too, but it’s not any more, it’s an entertainment business, where games are played for the sake of   TV schedules, currently in empty stadiums! 
 

I’d love a lot of things to go back to how they were in the 80’s but capitalism has destroyed everything it’s touched. I’m happy to stick where we are as a team, I loathe the Premier League and VAR, but many want to get back up there and the only way I can see that happening is with some sort of ambition and a plan, which I fear the current owner lacks. 

[GrimsbyBoro 1,968]

24 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

I'm not sure that comment adds anything to the debate, I'm wondering if you mean, Monk, Pulis, Woodgate or Warnock or perhaps going back further? My point is that to use the word "corrupt" and all its connotations is unnecessary.

Well we aren’t a club that can take any kind of moral high ground in transfer deals after we appoint managers who get paid on both ends  of transfer deals by agents.
 

Only deal with their own agents to ensure they get cash. 

Falsely inflate prices to get themselves a bigger cut.

One of our ex managers previous chairman’s refused to sanction a sale when they found out the replacements would make the manager a couple of million under the table.

[TeaCider24 12,614]

I don't know how I'd forgotten just how dodgy Monk was, hahah.

[TeaCider24 12,614]

Not really related to any point, but one modern trend I do dislike is owners that use Twitter and are constantly interacting with fans, sometimes to the point that they're publicly undermining their own manager.

Fulham's owners are always at it, and Aston Villa's former owner was notorious for it.

[TLF10 4,490]

Just now, TeaCider24 said:

Not really related to any point, but in a more modern trend I do dislike owners that use Twitter and are constantly interacting with fans, sometimes to the point that they're publicly undermining their own manager.

Fully agree. That Dr at Villa did and eventually it is what led to his unpopularity. The owners son at Fulham does it and regularly puts his foot in it.

Think trend was started by Peterborough owner who done it fairly succesfully.

Albeit whilst I dont like the above, I would like Steve Gibson to speak a bit more as he can go up to over a year without uttering a word bar a few sound bites to boost season ticket sales. 

[TeaCider24 12,614]

1 minute ago, TLF10 said:

Fully agree. That Dr at Villa did and eventually it is what led to his unpopularity. The owners son at Fulham does it and regularly puts his foot in it.

Think trend was started by Peterborough owner who done it fairly succesfully.

Albeit whilst I dont like the above, I would like Steve Gibson to speak a bit more as he can go up to over a year without uttering a word bar a few sound bites to boost season ticket sales. 

Don't get me wrong, I would love more communication from Gibson, I actually think the lack of communication is part of the problem, but I'd like that in the form of a press conference or interviews, not him live tweeting that the Bristol City match was a shambles and it's not good enough.

[TLF10 4,490]

11 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Don't get me wrong, I would love more communication from Gibson, I actually think the lack of communication is part of the problem, but I'd like that in the form of a press conference or interviews, not him live tweeting that the Bristol City match was a shambles and it's not good enough.

Oh 100%. Defo dont want him on twitter but his silence is defo reason why some fans become negative with him. A bit more transparency would not go a miss.
 

Even a yearly, hour long appearance on bbc tees where he answers fans written in questions about season gone and plans for season ahead etc would be a good idea

[JMC91 280]

The only time we've had any relative success or looked like we had a discernible direction was when we appointed Karanka, reportedly had Peter Kenyon overseeing football operations in something similar to a director of football role and had Victor Orta as head of recruitment. Many of our signings were successful during that time and we achieved our goal of getting into the Premier League. Both here and at Leeds, Orta has found players that fit into the systems played by the club's manager. That's what we're missing. 

All of these roles seem to have fallen back into the hands of Neil Bausor. Here's what is says on our website about Bausor: 

'He was made Chief Executive in March 2012 after nine months doing the job on an interim basis. Neil had previously worked with chemical companies such as ICI and more recently Syngenta, and brought a wealth of experience to the club... is accountable for the day-to-day running of Middlesbrough Football Club and works very closely with chairman Steve Gibson across all aspects of the business, including the football and recruitment side.'

In the absence of a director of football and head of recruitment, we have a guy whose background is in the management of chemical companies. Given that, it's no surprise that the club's footballing operations have suffered from such a volatile and inept strategy. 

We need experienced specialists to come in in these roles. We need to have a consistent philosophy that runs right through all areas of the club. Commercial, recruitment, player development, playing style. 

The question is, is Gibson willing or capable of doing this again? The way the Karanka/Orta era ended seems to have made him averse to going down that route again. But there's no denying that implementing this sort of structure is the only way clubs of our calibre can give themselves a competitive edge in today's climate. Gibson can't compete financially with the vast majority of owners in the top two tiers, so he is going to have to adapt and use our now limited resources in a more calculated way. 

My fear is that with the current management team and the advice that is about to be imparted to Gibson by Warnock, is that we're actually going to be moving away from what we need. Warnock has made his criticism of our recruitment personnel and our use of video and statistical databases quite clear, and given how some of our signings have fared in recent years, that criticism is probably quite valid in some ways. He's repeatedly stated the importance of Blackwell, Jepson and himself being able to watch a player to judge if they're good enough.

Of course that's important, they are after all, the people who currently coach the football team. But it sounds to me as though they will advocate a return to an outdated recruitment model based on first-hand scouting by a handful of trusted cronies. That just isn't going to cut it in the modern game and it will be absolutely no use to any potential successor. If we're to be set up for long term success, we'll need to take a progressive approach to recruitment and utilise every resource at our disposal to find the correct players. 

Someone mentioned on here a few weeks ago that we apparently have very few staff covering multiple specialised roles in recruitment and sports-science. Although it hasn't really come to fruition yet, we'd be taking a backwards step by getting rid of what we already have. We should be investing and expanding our scouting and recruitment capabilities and this needs to be directed by a new club hierarchy - an experienced director of football and a head of recruitment. 
 

[Blanco 4,915]

Some very good reasoned debate on here today. I don’t think that there is a right or wrong opinion but to coin a well used Mogga phrase “it is what it is”

[TeaCider24 12,614]

20 minutes ago, JMC91 said:

Gibson can't compete financially with the vast majority of owners in the top two tiers, so he is going to have to adapt and use our now limited resources in a more calculated way. 

People always say this, but who are we not competing with financially?

Most players we miss out on, we miss out on because they chose another club over us.

We infamously lost out on a lot of players to Villa a few seasons ago, but in every case we had matched their bids.

Obviously we can't compete with a lot of Premier League clubs financially, but no Championship club can legitimately.

[JMC91 280]

5 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

People always say this, but who are we not competing with financially?

Most players we miss out on, we miss out on because they chose another club over us.

We infamously lost out on a lot of players to Villa a few seasons ago, but in every case we had matched their bids.

Obviously we can't compete with Premier League clubs, but no Championship club can legitimately.

I think if you look at the net worth of the owners from the top two tiers, Gibson would be in the lower end of the Championship owners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_owners_of_English_football_clubs

Obviously, this doesn't necessarily equate to how well a club is financed, as Gibson has proved with his willingness to consistently back us at a level that is probably higher than other owners of similar net worth. But my point was more that we don't have the edge that we did 20 years ago, where we could outspend rather than out-think other clubs. 

[GrimsbyBoro 1,968]

I think the finance thing is more we can only compete.

Most clubs in the league are now on protruding much a level playing field. We can’t outbid or out wage people anymore so the decision to move comes down to other factors.

We have had what 1 year in the premier in recent memory and not really come close to returning. We have chopped and changed manager in a very unboro way, have been a revolving door for players and have spent years telling everyone we are skint. 

[Changing Times 12,338]

6 hours ago, Downsouth said:

DZ I do not know if you are having issues at home, work or otherwise but of late you have been far more aggressive than usual and I simply can not allow you to respond in such a way towards another member of the forum purely for his opinion.

There are many other ways you can reply and respond to matters you do not agree with but this time you are pushing the boundaries of decency. The swear filter does work but you intended to state what you have just done so.

Give it some thought about how you have been on the forum and try and calm down.

Please take this as a public warning that this type of interaction will not be tolerated towards good people.

Your'e a good lad and a valued member of the forum don't bring issues you may be suffering onto the forum for lashing out purposes.

Hopefully you may send Blanco a pm offering an apology.

Believe me this is not up for debate and I will not get into a conversation about it.

Thanks

Wait, does it still count if it's directed at Blanco? 😲

[Changing Times 12,338]

4 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

Yes, and it's 1 season in 17 for Leeds.

They've had foreign owners for 8 years now, and threw *** at the wall until it stuck.

People forget just how many managers they were going through before a gamble finally paid off with Bielsa. 

Hardly an example of the wonders of foreign ownership.

If you replaced Leeds with Boro and foreign with British or Gibson, would our situation look any different?

Edited February 28, 2021 by Changing Times