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Next seasons manager....


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1 hour ago, Duvel said:

Not at all but let's stop talking about Europe when we've spent 1 season in the top flight since 2009. Right now its not realistic. 

I don't think i mentioned european football but i'd bite your hand off for "just exisiting" in the Prem right now.

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The average life of a Championship manager is measured in months rather than years. I get the desire for a long term plan but we had one supposedly with Woodgate and that didn't last for long and wors

Can't believe you're even moaning about the club in a hypothetical situation where we did get promoted. We're in the Championship, the Europa League is irrelevant to us. The club should plan

Why do youngsters like you and @Brunners have to Americanise everything? Could you not say preparing to play Hurling 🤷‍♂️ @boroie and @Leesider back me up here 😃

9 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I've honestly never heard of Hurling before today and just watched some of it, how many different sports have they tried to combine to make that monstrosity? 😂

I mean, it looks class but I honestly have no idea how they're even playing it to the level they are, amazing technical skills by those players!

It really is extremely skilful at the top level but brutally barbaric at the lower end of the scale 😂

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2 hours ago, Duvel said:

I think since Woodgate was sacked the plan was to stabilise and then progress in this division. I'm not sure our ambition extended much further than that. 

The goal is to be a stable Championship club with a half-chance of sneaking promotion via the play offs. Gibson won't say that because it's not what fans want to hear. 

But let's be honest, it's what most teams in this division either are or aim to be.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

The goal is to be a stable Championship club with a half-chance of sneaking promotion via the play offs. Gibson won't say that because it's not what fans want to hear. 

But let's be honest, it's what most teams in this division either are or aim to be.

I really don't think that's true. I don't understand why Warnock would be in charge if that was the case, not why we would have appointed him, nor why he would bother being here. I certainly don't know why we'd be handing him another transfer kitty this summer if the job was just to be a stable Championship club. Any manager with an ounce of experience could keep this club stable in this division with the squad we have. Woodgate's tenure really did a number on some people's expectations and I've no idea why.

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35 minutes ago, Old Codger said:

I once saw a programme about road bowling...don't know if it still goes on ,  like to see them try that on the moor road... 🙂

Yes it’s still a popular sport in West Cork. I’m sure @Leesider could elaborate more being a Cork man

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30 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

The goal is to be a stable Championship club with a half-chance of sneaking promotion via the play offs. Gibson won't say that because it's not what fans want to hear. 

But let's be honest, it's what most teams in this division either are or aim to be.

 

 

That isn't true the vision is to be Burnley similar owner set up as well 

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4 hours ago, Snowblind said:

Warnock has saved us, to be fair to him. Yes the football is dire. Yes he's a bit of a ***. But he's turned around the diabolical decisions of the Monk, Pulis, and Woodgate eras and made us competitive again.

One more year. Let him keep consolidating the turnaround. Then, we move forward. That's the hope. 

We were more competitive under Pulis, and just as competitive under Monk.  The only diabolical decision he has helped to turn around was the one to appoint Woodgate, and that was only made because Pulis turned Gibson down, and Gibson thought he could get away with giving it to Woodgate.

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The average life of a Championship manager is measured in months rather than years. I get the desire for a long term plan but we had one supposedly with Woodgate and that didn't last for long and worse still it nearly brought us down to a Commercially disastrous League One level. 

Financially football clubs outside of the Premiership are really struggling, it was only a few moths ago there was talk that without support some Championship clubs may not survive. A long term plan right now is firstly, survival, secondly try and get higher up than you were previously and the ultimate is promotion. Most Championship Clubs will go through a few managers just in trying to achieve that.

Brentford have been planning for years, they are finally getting close and are probably the best example of a footballing wet dream for a few on here. They may or may not make it this season. If they do how many actually think that European football is in their sights right now? Their next goal will be to survive in the Premiership, hopefully long enough to permit gradual improvement so that they can become an established Premiership club. After that they can plan for the next level but reality is that they are more likely to be joining us down here sometime soon or indeed we may even pass them on our way up. Slaven Bilic looked the real deal with the Baggies last season but for some reason European football wasn't in his sights and I doubt very much if it is in Allardyce's planning either.

Having ambition is fine but how many on here are looking at brochures for Villa's in Mustique where they can dock their Yacht on their private jetty? If not, why not! Don't any of you have any ambition or is it that you live in the real world and know that the likelihood of achieving those dreams are relatively low. Perhaps your partners should divorce you and look to bring in (sorry Marry) a rich young Sheikh or Russian Billionaire so they can live their dreams and look down their noses at you stuck in your three bed semi's with an aspirational five year old 3 Series on the drive.

I get that Warnock may not be Klopp or Guardiola and I get a sense of disappointment but you would have been a darn site more disillusioned sat ten points off the League One play offs right now with Woodgate still in charge clinging to the Golden Thread dream. Sheffield Wednesday saw their owners throw cash at the dream as have Derby and Forest, sometimes like Villa and Wolves it works but when it doesn't the entire future survival of the club is put at risk. I'm guessing that those in the midst of a temper tantrum right now didn't live through 1986.

The Premiership is and has been for over two decades three distinct leagues, the ones at the top with the silver spoons, those in the middle casting envious glances whilst nervously looking over their shoulder and those in the third tier absolutely bricking it. I don't for a millisecond believe any club in the Championship is planning for European football any more than those in the third tier of the Premiership.

Financial might, TV money skewed in their favour along with final League position money and Stadia twice as big as the rest down to dodgy refereeing decisions intimidated by the press, pundits and social media the gap is huge. It has been deliberately created and encouraged by all those with fingers in the pie. The Premiership is now the same as in Scotland with Celtic and Rangers except that instead of two clubs there are four maybe six at most who will not be usurped unless and until the status quo changes which will be like Turkey's voting for Christmas. 

I go back as far as Stan Anderson and Boro are where we have traditionally always been albeit we had a few bumper periods with Big Jack and then with Steve Gibson when he could afford it. There will always be some club/s who we can hold up as "if they can why can't we" just as there were fans from other clubs when during the Robbo and McClaren era's were saying "if Boro can why can't we". The Leicester's, Southampton's, West Ham's and even Villa's and Newcastle's will come crashing back down again along with the Brighton's Palace's and West Brom's and no doubt Burnley. Its a question of when, not if for all of them, meanwhile get behind what we have got because we at least have a chance and more than likely an even better one next season of getting up there and unfashionable Boro stinking the place out.

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20 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

The average life of a Championship manager is measured in months rather than years. I get the desire for a long term plan but we had one supposedly with Woodgate and that didn't last for long and worse still it nearly brought us down to a Commercially disastrous League One level. 

That's the key thing here supposedly. Lets not kid ourselves the Woodgate appointment was done on the fly (and on the cheap) the backroom staff to support Woodgate were hastily assembled and massively inexperienced. Then the only one that resembled anything like an experienced member of staff, in Steve Round, we messed about and he bombed us off for Arsenal. Equating that to a long term plan is down right wrong, you said it later in the post Brentford have planned for years, we planned for weeks if that, the fact we still wanted Pulis proves how little the Woodgate appointment was thought out.

25 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Brentford have been planning for years, they are finally getting close and are probably the best example of a footballing wet dream for a few on here. They may or may not make it this season. If they do how many actually think that European football is in their sights right now?

It's part of the process though isn't it, you have an ultimate long-term goal to be achieved within 10/15 years, then you punctuate it with milestones. Currently their milestones are probably; promotion, survival, solidify and progress.


(This isn't me having a pop by the way!)

 

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Don't bother with a long term plan because it didn't work out under Woodgate?  We didn't have a long term plan.  Gibson wanted Pulis to stay on, not to appoint Woodgate, then when that didn't happen he settled for Woodgate as the cheapest option.  The rest of it was nonsense to appease fans after appointing someone most of them didn't want.  It was all for show.

You have long term plans precisely because of the financial pressures on football clubs at this level.  It stops you from blowing huge sums of money and then changing tack a few months later.  It stops you from massively increasing your revenue but somehow ending up worse off.  Although weirdly, you actually get credit for 'putting things right'.  The past year is exactly why having some actual plan in place is worthwhile because it allows you to weather storms like that.  It doesn't mean that everything will always go right, it means that when it goes wrong then you can deal with it without it becoming a catastrophe.  A few years ago, this football club was in a very strong position even following relegation, and we have systematically screwed ourselves since then.  

I have no idea what people's personal circumstances have to do with this either?  If you're trying to make a comparison between that and football, then I think you're well wide of the mark.  But, anyway, lots of people do start out with nothing and end up with a lot more, look at Gibson as an example of that.  Do you think he's achieved the things he's achieved in his life without having ambition?  When he started Bulkhaul, do you think he was just hoping to have a couple of trucks or a whole fleet?  Ambition is your aim, a plan is how you get there.  I think Gibson has ambition for Boro but I'm not convinced there's been a serious plan in place beyond him doing whatever he feels like at any given time.

Back to Warnock, there is no future with this appointment, his age ensures that.  But also, from a purely football perspective, Warnock has never kept a side up that he has managed to get promoted, and it's not as if promotion is exactly guaranteed when you look at how many tries he's had at getting promoted from this division in the first place.  So either we go up, come back down, have to change the manager, or we don't go up, and have to change the manager.  We're changing the manager whatever happens but he'll be left with a squad built for one style of play only unfortunately.  The job being passed on to Blackwell or Jepson is utterly ridiculous so I'm not surprised it was Blanco who suggested it.  Blackwell was so in demand before coming here that he was building a kitchen wasn't he?  But yeah, give him the Boro job, why not.  If I didn't know better I'd assume it was a Mackem or Geordie suggesting it rather than someone claiming to be a Boro fan.

Despite all of this, I wish Warnock luck here next season, but I doubt I will be a part of it.  I think I'll be happier not watching Boro games, and I should have already taken that decision this season.  If we win then I'll be happy, if we play as we often do then I'll be less unhappy not having had to watch it.  Hopefully Gibson is now actively looking to sell the club though as I suspect that's what is required now.

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30 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

That's the key thing here supposedly. Lets not kid ourselves the Woodgate appointment was done on the fly (and on the cheap) the backroom staff to support Woodgate were hastily assembled and massively inexperienced. Then the only one that resembled anything like an experienced member of staff, in Steve Round, we messed about and he bombed us off for Arsenal. Equating that to a long term plan is down right wrong, you said it later in the post Brentford have planned for years, we planned for weeks if that, the fact we still wanted Pulis proves how little the Woodgate appointment was thought out.

It's part of the process though isn't it, you have an ultimate long-term goal to be achieved within 10/15 years, then you punctuate it with milestones. Currently their milestones are probably; promotion, survival, solidify and progress.


(This isn't me having a pop by the way!)

 

I pretty much agree with that but the Woodgate appointment was pretty much nailed on from the off when the decision was made not to continue with Pulis. The summer of spin with names being bandied around was all smoke and mirrors as the decision had already been made to go with Woodgate. That the club, planned badly and amateurishly is testimony to the running of the club. Even without Steve Round they still could and should have said that they were looking for a senior body but hadn't recruited yet. That they gambled and went headlong into it without an old head bit them on the backside.

The milestones you mention are pretty much nail on the head.

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33 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Don't bother with a long term plan because it didn't work out under Woodgate?  We didn't have a long term plan.  Gibson wanted Pulis to stay on, not to appoint Woodgate, then when that didn't happen he settled for Woodgate as the cheapest option.  The rest of it was nonsense to appease fans after appointing someone most of them didn't want.  It was all for show.

You have long term plans precisely because of the financial pressures on football clubs at this level.  It stops you from blowing huge sums of money and then changing tack a few months later.  It stops you from massively increasing your revenue but somehow ending up worse off.  Although weirdly, you actually get credit for 'putting things right'.  The past year is exactly why having some actual plan in place is worthwhile because it allows you to weather storms like that.  It doesn't mean that everything will always go right, it means that when it goes wrong then you can deal with it without it becoming a catastrophe.  A few years ago, this football club was in a very strong position even following relegation, and we have systematically screwed ourselves since then.  

I have no idea what people's personal circumstances have to do with this either?  If you're trying to make a comparison between that and football, then I think you're well wide of the mark.  But, anyway, lots of people do start out with nothing and end up with a lot more, look at Gibson as an example of that.  Do you think he's achieved the things he's achieved in his life without having ambition?  When he started Bulkhaul, do you think he was just hoping to have a couple of trucks or a whole fleet?  Ambition is your aim, a plan is how you get there.  I think Gibson has ambition for Boro but I'm not convinced there's been a serious plan in place beyond him doing whatever he feels like at any given time.

Back to Warnock, there is no future with this appointment, his age ensures that.  But also, from a purely football perspective, Warnock has never kept a side up that he has managed to get promoted, and it's not as if promotion is exactly guaranteed when you look at how many tries he's had at getting promoted from this division in the first place.  So either we go up, come back down, have to change the manager, or we don't go up, and have to change the manager.  We're changing the manager whatever happens but he'll be left with a squad built for one style of play only unfortunately.  The job being passed on to Blackwell or Jepson is utterly ridiculous so I'm not surprised it was Blanco who suggested it.  Blackwell was so in demand before coming here that he was building a kitchen wasn't he?  But yeah, give him the Boro job, why not.  If I didn't know better I'd assume it was a Mackem or Geordie suggesting it rather than someone claiming to be a Boro fan.

Despite all of this, I wish Warnock luck here next season, but I doubt I will be a part of it.  I think I'll be happier not watching Boro games, and I should have already taken that decision this season.  If we win then I'll be happy, if we play as we often do then I'll be less unhappy not having had to watch it.  Hopefully Gibson is now actively looking to sell the club though as I suspect that's what is required now.

Just for clarity. I think it will definitely be offered to Blackwell and Jepson. So which is the ridiculous part? The part that I think it will happen? Or the part it would be offered to them?

 I think it’s ridiculous that you would not even contemplate that it could happen 

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The extension of Warnock has similar shades of Pulis to it to me. We are extending the contract of a manager who plays a distinctive type of football (Route one). Whilst I can see merit of giving Warnock another year, if we just pin all of our hopes that he gets us up in his brand of football, if he doesn’t, what is our squad going to look like?

it will be similar to when Pulis left and you had players who only play in a certain way for a specific style. This is even more short term thinking from the club. If we spend big on a massive Warnock big lad type striker and waste what financial freedom we have from the big earners moving on, we are literally back to square one again of having to cut our cloth and have square pegs in round holes. 
 

as I mentioned on another post, if we had a director of football who has the squad playing in a certain way then the manager becomes irrelevant as he has to use the players at his disposal. However, if we get Warnocks wish list, aren’t we just repeating the cycle we had under Pulis? 
 

I like Warnock and I do rate him as a manager, but I feel that a small window of opportunity was there for a fresh start and financial freedom to rebuild a team in a different image and style, rather than an extension of more of the crap we’ve had to endure of the last 4 seasons 
 

 

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11 minutes ago, Blanco said:

Just for clarity. I think it will definitely be offered to Blackwell and Jepson. So which is the ridiculous part? The part that I think it will happen? Or the part it would be offered to them?

 I think it’s ridiculous that you would not even contemplate that it could happen 

I think it definitely won't be offered to them.  The actual idea of either of them managing us is ridiculous.  I think only a special sort of mind would even contemplate it 🙂

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