Denzel Zanzibar 6,968 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said: He took advantage of a paralytic woman and had sex with her, is that the type of behaviour you condone? He'd been drinking as well, neither were able to lawfully consent but that bit always seems to get missed out. Perhaps because it doesn't suit your narrative? Link to post Share on other sites
BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: He'd been drinking as well, neither were able to lawfully consent but that bit always seems to get missed out. Perhaps because it doesn't suit your narrative? So you condone his behaviour? Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,968 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Snowblind said: That's exactly the sort of mindset and rhetoric which makes women scared to come forward when they've been victims of sexual violence. Do some research, man. Stop reading the red tops and actually talk to women who've been victims of similar violence against them. That's 97% of women by the way - who've suffered sexual assault of any kind. 20% of women experience it before they turn 16. Talk to them about their experiences with the police, and if they made it to court, and then tell them to their faces that they're lying, if you can. I don't read the red tops, but thanks for just assuming my character there, champ. Yes, there are cases where victims are afraid to come forward. Yes, women are often not believed. There are also cases where women lie, or feel shame after sleeping with a footballer who then wants nothing to do with them, who may also seek revenge. I'm not claiming the woman who Evans slept with is one of those women, in fact she has never claimed that he raped her. This isn't whataboutism, this isn't about not believing 97% of women either. Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,968 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said: So you condone his behaviour? No I don't condone it. Drunken sex always carries that kind of risk. I also don't believe he should have gone to prison for it. Do you condone the behaviour of the woman? Link to post Share on other sites
BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: No I don't condone it. Drunken sex always carries that kind of risk. I also don't believe he should have gone to prison for it. Do you condone the behaviour of the woman? The woman was the victim. She was picked up by a colleague of Evans whilst inebriated and taken to a hotel room. The colleague then rang Evans, saying that he’d “got a girl”. Evans then drove to the hotel and joined in. What is it about the woman’s behaviour that you have a problem with? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Smokedsalmon 1,247 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 All questions about his character aside, he's 32, hardly had a kick this season, and hasn't been a consistent goal scorer for a few years. Has more than a little bit of the Appearances: 23, Goals: 1 kind of season about it if we were to get him. Is this the sort of overhaul Warnock recommended for our scouting? Don't bother with the analytics lads... Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,968 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said: The woman was the victim. She was picked up by a colleague of Evans whilst inebriated and taken to a hotel room. The colleague then rang Evans, saying that he’d “got a girl”. Evans then drove to the hotel and joined in. What is it about the woman’s behaviour that you have a problem with? Nothing, that's my point. She clearly chose to go to the hotel room. If she'd been drugged then that would have been proven in court, wouldn't it? Why else did she go to his hotel room? To play a rousing game of Monopoly? Link to post Share on other sites
Snowblind 1,734 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: I don't read the red tops, but thanks for just assuming my character there, champ. Yes, there are cases where victims are afraid to come forward. Yes, women are often not believed. There are also cases where women lie, or feel shame after sleeping with a footballer who then wants nothing to do with them, who may also seek revenge. I'm not claiming the woman who Evans slept with is one of those women, in fact she has never claimed that he raped her. This isn't whataboutism, this isn't about not believing 97% of women either. Aye, but 66+% of women don't lie, as per the statistic I said about men of Evans' age range in court. Anything less than an absolute "yes" is not consent. Silence is not consent. Being drunk is not consent. Yes, Evans had been drinking - but being drunk does not amount to consent. Ever. The girl's sexual history is not consent. The whole retrial was a character assassination of the victim as opposed to a genuine second look at the case. It was abhorrent. It shouldn't have been allowed in a court of law, and it actively flew in the face of consent law in this country. My point still stands. If Boro sign Ched Evans, I am personally done with the club. I'd have done the same back when we signed Marlon King if I knew the things I know now. If he signs, I'll list all the Boro memorabilia I have on here and you lot can cherry pick it free of charge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DanFromDownSouth 1,706 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: To play a rousing game of Monopoly? How dare you bring Monopoly into this! Link to post Share on other sites
Snowblind 1,734 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: Nothing, that's my point. She clearly chose to go to the hotel room. If she'd been drugged then that would have been proven in court, wouldn't it? Why else did she go to his hotel room? To play a rousing game of Monopoly? Still - going to a hotel room is not consent. Anything less than a hard "yes" is not consent. Consent cannot be assumed, ever. Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,968 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, DanFromDownSouth said: How dare you bring Monopoly into this! Fine, Scrabble Link to post Share on other sites
BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: Nothing, that's my point. She clearly chose to go to the hotel room. If she'd been drugged then that would have been proven in court, wouldn't it? Why else did she go to his hotel room? To play a rousing game of Monopoly? She was drunk, how is that different from being on drugs? She didn’t consent to sex, she was raped. Link to post Share on other sites
DanFromDownSouth 1,706 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: Fine, Scrabble I can deal with that. I just don't like my overtly capitalist board games getting slandered. Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,968 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Snowblind said: Still - going to a hotel room is not consent. Anything less than a hard "yes" is not consent. Consent cannot be assumed, ever. Despite what TV and Films show otherwise, huh. Consent absolutely can be implied. Perhaps in this case the waters were a bit muddy due to the alcohol but if you think both parties actually have to physically say "yes" each time for consent to occur then you're being ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,968 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Just now, BillyWoofs_shinpad said: She was drunk, how is that different from being on drugs? She didn’t consent to sex, she was raped. How do you know she didn't consent to sex? Were you there? She said she didn't remember giving consent. That's not the same as not consenting. Link to post Share on other sites
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