Changing Times 12,210 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 hours ago, wilsoncgp said: I mentioned this on Twitter in response to the Gazette story about how we win more games when we have less possession. I saw that but I think they are misunderstanding the data, although I haven't looked into it myself in any detail I hasten to add so I might be wrong. When we go behind in a game, we have more of the ball as we are chasing the game and the opposition are happier to let us have it whilst sitting back. Similarly, when we go ahead in a game, we are content to let the opposition have more of the ball and we are happier sitting back. That doesn't mean that we win more games when we have less possession though. The key thing would be to see the possession stats when the games are level, especially from kick off, to see what happens there. I suspect that you'd find that we almost always have less possession than the opposition between kick off and the first goal being scored. This first goal being scored either way fundamentally changes the game and the behaviour of both teams. But the critical thing would be that we almost always have lower possession from the start whatever the end result of the game. It's not the possession that is determining the outcome of the game, it's an effect rather than the cause if you like. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,210 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, TLF10 said: Its up to people if they want to be naive enough to believe that he was actually our no.1 target because every man and dog knows our main striker target last summer was Kieffer Moore Surely the relevant point is that he shouldn't have been our anything target, as he quite clearly isn't the type of striker we apparently must have, and our manager was going to make absolutely no effort to alter his own approach to the players he had available to him? In the middle of a pandemic, with the club struggling for income, we've wasted a few million quid on a player that we clearly didn't want, and have already told to bugger off. Somehow, this isn't down to Warnock in some people's eyes, even though he was quite happy to tell everyone that he personally stopped us from pursuing two defenders that the recruitment team recommended, because in his words they couldn't defend. I guess that Akpom somehow slipped through the net. Incidentally, I'd love to know the two players involved, and whether they really can't defend, or whether they just defend in a different way to Warnock's own preferences. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, scotty189 said: Hang on warnock was hailed as the messiah for keeping us up and until Jan things looked good. He rightly deserves at least another season. Hailed by who...Steve Gibson? I don't know of anyone who felt that way. He did what he was brought in to do, oversaw a handful of games and ended up with a 50% win rate. Decent for someone parachuted in at the end of the season to pull off a rescue act, but hardly a Messiah. Only reason he's getting another season is because no good managers would give Boro a second glance in our current state. Warnock is a reasonably safe pair of hands that will more than likely give us another mid-table finish. Thats about it. A Messiah would have done something to transform / improve the club - be it training, scouting, playing style - and given us something to be excited about. Warnock is a dinosaur who will probably retire after next season. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,210 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 hours ago, nunthorpered said: Prefers not to be here if he can help it lol. I think I'd prefer that as well, not that there isn't a lot to recommend a druggie that has barely played football in a year. Link to post Share on other sites
scotty189 924 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, AnglianRed said: Hailed by who...Steve Gibson? I don't know of anyone who felt that way. He did what he was brought in to do, oversaw a handful of games and ended up with a 50% win rate. Decent for someone parachuted in at the end of the season to pull off a rescue act, but hardly a Messiah. Only reason he's getting another season is because no good managers would give Boro a second glance in our current state. Warnock is a reasonably safe pair of hands that will more than likely give us another mid-table finish. Thats about it. A Messiah would have done something to transform / improve the club - be it training, scouting, playing style - and given us something to be excited about. Warnock is a dinosaur who will probably retire after next season. Come off it, our fans all loved him up until recently, I don't get the all of a sudden change in mindset towards him. Ok since Jan our forms not been great, but I think we can all agree we were punching. He's our best chance out of this league, his track record of promotions is second to none. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TLF10 4,440 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 @wilsoncgp and @Changing Times agree with what you both saying. Whether we should have signed him is definitely up for debate as his record does not scream out does it and his style does not suggest he can be a lone striker. And that is how we wish to play so his signing was odd. I was merely pointing out we not made Chuba any worse or better than he was in Greece in my view. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die 1,177 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 🙃 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ManBearPig 1,833 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 31 minutes ago, scotty189 said: Come off it, our fans all loved him up until recently, I don't get the all of a sudden change in mindset towards him. Ok since Jan our forms not been great, but I think we can all agree we were punching. He's our best chance out of this league, his track record of promotions is second to none. I thought at the time we needed to stay up, the appointment of Warnock made sense. However, I personally was at least content with Warnocks style IF we were getting results. The results have dried up and the performances haven’t even been up to the standard. That’s worrying to me as I feel that Gibson is entrusting a lot of faith in Warnock like he did with Pulis based on his past, rather than his present. Obviously Warnock has more promotions than Pulis, but the style of football is outweighed by results. The same happened to Pulis, when the results and performances went, the style of football was rightly criticised. I think that is happening now with Warnock. As much as I’d love us to find a manager or coach who would change the style and philosophy of the club, it won’t happen whilst Gibson is still here. He had the choice to go down different routes but chose not to. Remember Jokanovic? Could we have afforded his wages for a year with the terrible signing of Chuba Akpom that we’ve just wasted? I mean the club is just an absolute mess when you start to unpick it all. Ive wandered off on a tangent, but Warnock is rightly in the spotlight because his style of play isn’t getting results. His man management is also terrible and his biggest selling point is apparently his “motivation” to the dressing room? The same dressing room who lost 3-0 to Wycombe. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,210 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die said: 🙃 That's actually still better than Gestede, Alves and Mido 🤦♂️ 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ballyclover 210 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) To be fair we spent £10 mil on Rhodes- Fail £15 mil on Britt-fail (ish) £7 mil on Fletcher- fail £6 mil Gesteed--fail £3 mil on Akpom-Fail So at least our striker fails are getting cheaper... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BoroSmoggie 2,678 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 We won’t have paid £3million though. Probably not even half. Most contracts are full of clauses, main ones being goals and appearances. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernSmoggie 4,223 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, ballyclover said: To be fair we spent £10 mil on Rhodes- Fail £15 mil on Britt-fail (ish) £7 mil on Fletcher- fail £6 mil Gesteed--fail £3 mil on Akpom-Fail So at least our striker fails are getting cheaper... Tiny bit harsh on Rhodes? Only had half a season and scored a couple of big goals that helped get us over the line and promoted. That last minute goal against (Bolton?) was worth a few mill alone 😄 1 Link to post Share on other sites
scotty189 924 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, SouthernSmoggie said: Tiny bit harsh on Rhodes? Only had half a season and scored a couple of big goals that helped get us over the line and promoted. That last minute goal against (Bolton?) was worth a few mill alone 😄 I'd take Rhodes back be more than adequate as our number 3 striker Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,228 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said: We won’t have paid £3million though. Probably not even half. Most contracts are full of clauses, main ones being goals and appearances. I doubt we'd have signed him if a significant part of the money was based on performance. PAOK wouldn't have been too daft either, surely, if we signed him hoping for him to score goals for us, they wouldn't have agreed to a significant sum of money being based on him scoring 20 goals. Most transfers having clauses doesn't mean we don't spend significant amounts of money on transfers. Really, the fact we spent any money on a player we don't want is bad enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,210 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said: We won’t have paid £3million though. Probably not even half. Most contracts are full of clauses, main ones being goals and appearances. I think that tends to be more for bigger transfer fees. I imagine that PAOK would have wanted a decent amount up front before they let him go. I know I bloody would have. Link to post Share on other sites
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