Duvel 2,446 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 15 minutes ago, AnglianRed said: Well, yes, the top PL clubs have produced a clutch of very good young players, as evidenced by the national team's improved performances (plus the odd one that learned to play overseas like Jadon Sancho). Some academies are working...but even in the PL you're only talking about 2-3 players per club. Used to be a time when England teams were mostly comprised of Man Utd and Arsenal players. Then there was a period when Chelsea had a few. Lately its been a good mix. But I'm wondering how many lower-league academy players get snapped up while still relatively young (e.g. 13 - 15) and end up graduating through a PL team's system. As you say, there seems to be an issue where the biggest and richest clubs are able to snap up a lot of the young talent...most of whom will simply end up going out on loan or sold to lower league teams. Then there are clubs like Boro who simply don't seem to produce many players that end up being first team regulars. I know there is a lot of pressure on managers to deliver instant results, which means they don't necessarily have time to bring younger players along and help them make the step up, but I always thought an academy's primary purpose was to produce players that were capable of playing in the first team. Obviously only a fraction of youngsters will ever make it, but to me it still seems like a tiny number ever do. Surely it could be improved a bit? Seems like 90% either wash out and end up pursuing other careers, or the better ones get sold to lower league clubs. Its hard to compare past and current eras to say whether we are producing more and better young players as a country. As a club I still think we do pretty well, you're always going to have golden periods like 86 and 2004 and barren spells but I think this area produces a fair amount of pro footballers. My question was about the top end of the game, I think we are producing some really good players as a country and our young players now seem to be technically better than they were in previous generations. The other side of that is how many players get discarded along the way. I've heard of stories where pro clubs have literally 100s of players in every age group and the majority of them are never going to get near a pro contract. That is totally wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 minute ago, estonpidge said: When was Blackburn's last home grown starter? Genuine question. Phil Jones? To be honest I don't know much about Blackburn's academy, I'm just using them as an example to show how competitive it is to find good young players in the NW. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
boksicdink 1,937 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Duvel said: Its hard to compare past and current eras to say whether we are producing more and better young players as a country. As a club I still think we do pretty well, you're always going to have golden periods like 86 and 2004 and barren spells but I think this area produces a fair amount of pro footballers. My question was about the top end of the game, I think we are producing some really good players as a country and our young players now seem to be technically better than they were in previous generations. The other side of that is how many players get discarded along the way. I've heard of stories where pro clubs have literally 100s of players in every age group and the majority of them are never going to get near a pro contract. That is totally wrong. I agree with this. I would say that with our academy over the last 10 years, we seem to have a high baseline. A lot of them seem to make the grade in league football so I think our academy is pretty consistent in that sense if nothing else. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RiseAgainst 3,777 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, Duvel said: Since Gazza came through how many players of his natural ability have we produced as a country? There's probably only Rooney with a similar ability at 17/18 years old. I just don't think any area or country churns out players with Gazza's ability on a regular basis. Paul Scholes was similarly mercurial and a lot more level-headed. So's Harry Kane - even when he's out of form, he's lethal. Beckham was always immensely talented, and Foden is an astonishing young player. I think England does okay in terms of unearthing players with exceptional raw ability. I do agree that players like Gazza are few and far between, but that's true the world over, and in any sporting discipline. How many snooker players had the natural ability of Alex Higgins? Jimmy White could live with him on a good day, but nobody else from the last 40 years had Higgins' flair and unpredictability - or his self-destructive qualities, for that matter. Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 minute ago, RiseAgainst said: Paul Scholes was similarly mercurial and a lot more level-headed. So's Harry Kane - even when he's out of form, he's lethal. Beckham was always immensely talented, and Foden is an astonishing young player. I think England does okay in terms of unearthing players with exceptional raw ability. I do agree that players like Gazza are few and far between, but that's true the world over, and in any sporting discipline. How many snooker players had the natural ability of Alex Higgins? Jimmy White could live with him on a good day, but nobody else from the last 40 years had Higgins' flair and unpredictability - or his self-destructive qualities, for that matter. Yeah that was my point really, we've produced great players like those from Beckhams era but the true geniuses only come round once in a blue moon. I don't even know how you would try to create an environment to produce football geniuses, I think it just happens by chance. If we are producing players like Kane and Foden in volume though then we must be getting something right. Look at the young players coming through in this country, I watched Elliot from Liverpool at the weekend and he looks absolutely class. Imagine a midfield with him Grealish and Foden in a few years if they fulfill their potential as players. Link to post Share on other sites
estonpidge 1,442 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Elliott was bought from Fulham, who are no bigger than us historically but seem to be doing OK with the talent spotting, holding on to it is another matter. Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I think Rooney had the potential to be one of the best in the world, I watched him play for England at the stadium of light against Turkey. I think he was 17 and it was his first start for England, he was the best player on the pitch by an absolute mile. Then at Euro 2004 he was on the same pitch as Zidane in the opening game and looked unbelievable. He had a brilliant career (better than Gazza) but I think he could he had the potential to be up there with Ronaldo and Messi. Link to post Share on other sites
nunthorpered 1,920 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Turned into an academy thread this 😂 Link to post Share on other sites
estonpidge 1,442 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 It does seem as though a lot of our talent peak at 18-20 rather than continue to develop beyond the youth academy. Ross Barkley said he hadn't been coached since youth level until he arrived at Chelsea Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, estonpidge said: Elliott was bought from Fulham, who are no bigger than us historically but seem to be doing OK with the talent spotting, holding on to it is another matter. Yeah and they are competing in a more condensed area than us, probably a bigger talent pool though. Link to post Share on other sites
estonpidge 1,442 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Just now, nunthorpered said: Turned into an academy thread this 😂 just waiting for some thing to happen, the usual stuff Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Just now, nunthorpered said: Turned into an academy thread this 😂 Nowt else to talk about. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
nunthorpered 1,920 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Duvel said: Nowt else to talk about. Very true! Link to post Share on other sites
DevKWat 2,365 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 Link to post Share on other sites
boksicdink 1,937 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, DevKWat said: Let's hope that we can play them off of each other and raise the fee! Link to post Share on other sites
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