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Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""


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10 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

8 apparently, but they include his promotion with Scarborough from the conference as a promotion in the EFL. So 8 promotions in 41 years. 

For comparison Darren Ferguson has 5 promotions in 14 years. Nigel Adkins has 4 in 15 years and Simon Grayson has 4 in 16 years. Half the amount of promotions in well under half the amount of time.

This whole thing of NW being a promotion specialist doesn't exactly wash with me. I feel like if anyone managed for 41 years, they'd get similar numbers, as illustrated with the 3 mangers compared above. None are exactly "world class" in my opinion, yet they'll probably overtake the amount of promotions NW has if given another 20 years.

Steve Bruce 4 promotions in 23 years and more seasons managed in the top flight. 

Warnock is old school, he knows how to make a team solid, he's good at buying solid British players and moulding a team. His football isn't always going to be pleasing on the eye but if we give him enough seasons he's probably going to have us up there competing eventually. The problem with the current situation is how many more seasons does he have left in him and do we want to watch his brand of football for a long period of time. 

Warnock was the perfect appointment after Woodgate because we were a mess and heading for relegation. Does he seem like the future of the club, I dont think so but I think he'll be here until May and Gibson will accept another season of consolidation. 

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5 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Steve Bruce 4 promotions in 23 years and more seasons managed in the top flight. 

Warnock is old school, he knows how to make a team solid, he's good at buying solid British players and moulding a team. His football isn't always going to be pleasing on the eye but if we give him enough seasons he's probably going to have us up there competing eventually. The problem with the current situation is how many more seasons does he have left in him and do we want to watch his brand of football for a long period of time. 

Warnock was the perfect appointment after Woodgate because we were a mess and heading for relegation. Does he seem like the future of the club, I dont think so but I think he'll be here until May and Gibson will accept another season of consolidation. 

The problem is, as I see it. We bring a manager in to do a job and what they are good at. If we do this then there is no point in not letting them sign players that THEY can get the best out of and want to work with.

We may not like signings from championship who some call plodders (I don’t see them as that) but Warnock knows the type of player he wants. So signing a Payero for example may be exciting but if it’s not a player that fits how Warnock wants to play and for the team (Akpom) then it is a waste of funds, which is why he would get annoyed at signing players he doesn’t want. Takes funds from players he may want and would work in his team.

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I don’t think Chuba is very good and you can see that through his scoring record wherever he has been. However, whilst he has been here we have constantly launched long balls into the final third which are nigh on impossible for him to win. Goes the same for Britt and fletcher to be fair. The way he has been treated by Warnock whilst he has been here is quite disgusting to be honest. Constant snipes at him in the media just is not on at all. I’m sure he’s trying his best. He’s come here from that Greek club probably because he was eager to make it back into English football. Now the poor lad probably wishes he never left Greece

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1 minute ago, Riverside94 said:

The problem is, as I see it. We bring a manager in to do a job and what they are good at. If we do this then there is no point in not letting them sign players that THEY can get the best out of and want to work with.

We may not like signings from championship who some call plodders (I don’t see them as that) but Warnock knows the type of player he wants. So signing a Payero for example may be exciting but if it’s not a player that fits how Warnock wants to play and for the team (Akpom) then it is a waste of funds, which is why he would get annoyed at signing players he doesn’t want. Takes funds from players he may want and would work in his team.

Yeah you're right, I've just said on another thread that everyone needs to be buying into the recruitment process otherwise it'll be a mess. 

I listened to an interview with Scott and he talked about the way they went about bringing players into Norwich. He said the owners, scouts and the manager all had the same philosophy about how they want the team to play. The scouts identify the players that they think Farke needs and will like, he has to give it the thumbs up from a football perspective then the owners have to decide if its a deal they can afford. All this fits into a long term plan as well. 

What you can't have is players being bought that a manager doesn't want, you've got to have everyone on the same page, either that or you change the manager.  

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13 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Steve Bruce 4 promotions in 23 years and more seasons managed in the top flight. 

Warnock is old school, he knows how to make a team solid, he's good at buying solid British players and moulding a team. His football isn't always going to be pleasing on the eye but if we give him enough seasons he's probably going to have us up there competing eventually. The problem with the current situation is how many more seasons does he have left in him and do we want to watch his brand of football for a long period of time. 

Warnock was the perfect appointment after Woodgate because we were a mess and heading for relegation. Does he seem like the future of the club, I dont think so but I think he'll be here until May and Gibson will accept another season of consolidation. 

Good point.

There was only one direction we were heading in when Warnock took over! 

This season feels like the start of a new chapter, all the Monk signings are gone now, we have quite a young squad. If Warnock builds us a solid platform for the next guy and Scott then that’s fine for me.

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5 minutes ago, TLF10 said:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-warnocks-frank-chuba-akpom-21371588
 

Chuba dropped yesterday as he was poor when he came on V QPR.

Told to find a new club as he wont get selected moving forward.

People should remember things like this when they slate players for being greedy, football is an absolutely ruthless business and players are quickly discarded if they are seen as not good enough. Our club is no different to any other club and we are as ruthless as anyone when it comes to business. 

Akpom will have probably earned a decent living as well, lots of players further down the ladder are not as lucky as him. 

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1 hour ago, Redcar Rioja said:

SG gets slaughtered on here for the way the Club has been "run" since Eindhoven and all his "gifts".

He may do by some and rightly so, but not by all it seems.

Let me be clear, I am grateful to him for keeping our club afloat, he has wasted millions of his own money trying to provide success to us fans. I have no doubt he does so out of desire and hunger to succeed, his heart is in the right place. At the end of the day it is his club (well in the main being the majority stakeholder) However his decision making regarding footballers is flawed, but then so are mine, yours and everyones i guess.

My point was really aimed at people criticising Warnock. You can’t finish a jigsaw properly if others are providing you parts who don’t understand the pieces you  have already pieced together. Warnock has clearly got his way on several players, people like Ikpeazu, Crookes, Bamba etc. Warnock has already all but told us Payero and Van Bergen were Gibson players. Players from abroad often take time to settle, especially if the language barrier is present. I am not saying they are poor players, they aren’t. They look exciting, have potential, but are projects like Emnes was, like De Pena was, gambles that may or may not pay off. 
 

I just think a football club is more likely to be successful if the owner runs the business side and the manager runs the footballing side including full approval of ALL players incoming and outgoing. I do not feel that this has been the case at Boro since 2006, possibly even before. I would prefer Gibson to place his trust in the manager ( or new Head of Football, Scott, in conjunction with manager and his coaching staff that he appoints), let them decide on player recruitment and retention. Let the CEO focus on trying to deliver them financially. If the owner subsequently does not like the way someone is doing their job then he can fire them and hire replacements. Let accountability and roles be clear, not muddled as they appear to be presently.

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45 minutes ago, Robin Johnson said:

I like a lot of others am not a fan of Akpom. However the way Warnock has hung him out to dry leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

why do it? Shows a distinct lack of class. Not a great advert for anyone thinking of joining us. 
 

What it demonstrates to me is Warnock is looking for a scapegoat- and Akpom is just that. Our problems are deeper than just him. Why is it our club lurches from one issue to another?

Touching on Warnock and him staying and lasting the season out- it will be his decision of that I am sure.

If he realises he is making a pigs ear of things Christmas could well be decision time for him I feel. The cracks are already materialising.

There is just no class about Warnock whatsoever. I hope that Chube gets his chance to open his mouth once he’s changed clubs. He must be biting his lip currently. While he is not good enough and I want him gone too there is just no way a manager should single a player out like that when it’s his awful tactics that are on show. What an idiot boss. 

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6 minutes ago, Riverside94 said:

The problem is, as I see it. We bring a manager in to do a job and what they are good at. If we do this then there is no point in not letting them sign players that THEY can get the best out of and want to work with.

We may not like signings from championship who some call plodders (I don’t see them as that) but Warnock knows the type of player he wants. So signing a Payero for example may be exciting but if it’s not a player that fits how Warnock wants to play and for the team (Akpom) then it is a waste of funds, which is why he would get annoyed at signing players he doesn’t want. Takes funds from players he may want and would work in his team.

Is this not exactly the problem we were complaining about a year or so ago? New manager comes in with a different style and we have to turn over the whole squad because it’s not “their team”. We flounder for a few years and then get a new manager in.

I much prefer the Norwich/Brentford model - DoF controls the signings, decides on a team identity and hire a manager that can work within it. If we are going to play with fast wingers, solid strikers and a defensive midfield then Warnock fits. Importantly the DoF strategy means that the next manager (or a list of candidates) should already have been identified - and the players we sign should already fit their tactics.

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6 minutes ago, Duvel said:

People should remember things like this when they slate players for being greedy, football is an absolutely ruthless business and players are quickly discarded if they are seen as not good enough. Our club is no different to any other club and we are as ruthless as anyone when it comes to business. 

Akpom will have probably earned a decent living as well, lots of players further down the ladder are not as lucky as him. 

Honestly I think the way we have dealt with Akpom since he's got here has been pathetic really, yes he's been poor but we have done absolutely nothing to try to help. Warnock threw him and our recruitment under the bus at the first opportunity, rather than try to actually work him into any set up

The distancing from Warnock is particularly savvy given he almost definitely signed off the deal

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6 minutes ago, BegSteeleOrBoro said:

Is this not exactly the problem we were complaining about a year or so ago? New manager comes in with a different style and we have to turn over the whole squad because it’s not “their team”. We flounder for a few years and then get a new manager in.

I much prefer the Norwich/Brentford model - DoF controls the signings, decides on a team identity and hire a manager that can work within it. If we are going to play with fast wingers, solid strikers and a defensive midfield then Warnock fits. Importantly the DoF strategy means that the next manager (or a list of candidates) should already have been identified - and the players we sign should already fit their tactics.

Yeah the strategy should be long-term so each manager comes in and fits into the clubs style of playing rather than vice versa. 

The way we jumped from one style to another from McClaren to Southgate to Strachan to Mowbray to Karanka to Monk to Pulis to Woodgate to Warnock doesn't indicate any level of long-term planning. 

I agree with the point that we need to have a manager on board with the signings though, if he isn't then either you don't sign the players, you change the manager or you maybe have an unhappy club while the club is transitioning. 

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24 minutes ago, BoroJake said:

I don’t think Chuba is very good and you can see that through his scoring record wherever he has been. However, whilst he has been here we have constantly launched long balls into the final third which are nigh on impossible for him to win. Goes the same for Britt and fletcher to be fair. The way he has been treated by Warnock whilst he has been here is quite disgusting to be honest. Constant snipes at him in the media just is not on at all. I’m sure he’s trying his best. He’s come here from that Greek club probably because he was eager to make it back into English football. Now the poor lad probably wishes he never left Greece

Or is Warnock doing the Owners bidding?

It has all the hallmarks of when others have been sidelined for whatever reason, do you think Southgate reneged on a promise to Schwarzer, or to unilaterally send Mendieta to the reserves? Did Pulis not start Downing for football reasons? Was Bamford sold for footballing reasons? Of course not, the reasons all had financial decisions behind them and I would be amazed if managers were not simply following instructions from on high to help engineer their masters wishes. I am sure the same is happening to Akpomb. The method may seem unsavoury, but it happens throughout the football world and under different managers. The common denominator is usually the owner. Managers do not sell players, owners do, managers merely ‘persuade the player through every means possible’ it is a part of their job to carry out the wishes of their employer.

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The other thing with the Norwich model is would people be happy with promotion one year then getting pummelled every week in the Premier league? 

I know the aim is to stay up but if things weren't going well halfway through a struggling Premier league season would we hold our nerve as fans and see the big picture, or would we be calling for Allardyce to save use? More importantly will Steve Gibson be able to stick to a longterm project?  

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  • Downsouth changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""
  • Old Codger changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Sporar Tomorar?""

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