Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

49 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

You're overlooking the scenario where Warnock is just here to keep things ticking along until Gibson appoints a new manager...hopefully kicking off a new era culminating in promotion.

We've seen what Warnock can do for us and IMO to have a hope of achieving promotion, we either have to spend big and target significantly better players than we're doing, (potentially another Garry Monk scenario), or we have to hope he can repeat what he did at Cardiff...which would still probably cost more than Gibson would want to spend in the current circumstances.

Even if Warnock did get us promoted, we'd then immediately have to dump him and make wholesale changes to have any chance of staying up. Or just do what Norwich did last time and accept immediate relegation and go again.

Obviously the club would be in a far better position financially, but it would still require a significant gamble on Gibson's part.

I know its early days, but does anything thats happened so far strike you as a club gearing up for promotion?

While you can't rule it out, it does seem more likely that next season will be much like this one. It makes more sense to me to appoint a new manager when we're in a better position to launch a promotion bid.

I really don't think Warnock is here to keep us 'ticking along', no. I don't quite understand why anyone believes that, to be honest. Does his attitude towards football give off the impression he's happy with mid-table finishes and keeping us going? I don't think so. He's certainly got no reason to worry about money so I don't see that as his reason for being here. So what about this man do people think makes him happy being in charge of a slow-burner that he'll never see the fruits of? When he sits in his press conferences and speaks up Howson, Paddy, Watmore and says "they'll enjoy next season", what do you think he's really saying? Bet you can't wait for another stable season lads, at least I'm in charge though so it'll be a laugh!

What about the signings themselves? Their attitude coming into the club has always been the same throughout the past few years from Howson to Lumley, they join us in the hope to fulfil their Premier League ambitions. Lumley's going on about England ffs. These aren't players hoping we 'punch above our weight' to get promoted, the players we're signing now and signed 6 months ago and beyond under Warnock have come here hoping he'll take us up now because they know he can. No player joining us right now could possibly think promotion is coming in 2-3 years under this manager because his contract is only rolling over from one season to the next. Do you think they're signing looking forward to the next manager?

Any manager worth his salt could take this squad even in its current form and keep it going in this division whilst he takes it step by step in the direction he needs it to go in the long-term. There is literally no reason we shouldn't have the next man in charge already if promotion isn't the aim this season just gone or next season to come. What's the difference between giving the next man the job in 2020, 2021 or 2022? What about us is so unstable that any other manager couldn't have done what Warnock did last season? Some people think its a miracle we finished 10th, I just don't understand it at all.

[Humpty 3,261]

3 hours ago, Neverbefore said:

Question - does anyone genuinely think we have a real shot at promotion with the players we are being linked with right now? Not one player we've been linked to do far would make it into one of the top 6 sides this season. Maybe their squad but no where near their first 11. 

 

In a word. No

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

20 minutes ago, boronutter said:

yes.too many people getting carried away,thinking doom and gloom already before weve even had a chance to bring people in!!!!

We can only talk about the potentials though, it's a transfer thread where we've had one transfer happen so far. And a lot of it comes from the fact we are literally only being genuinely linked with older, more limited strikers. And for me, whilst I appreciate Warnock needs someone of this ilk if he's going to continue to have us play the way he does, Middlesbrough exists beyond Warnock's tenure and after the *** we've been served up over the past 4 years, if we never talk proactively about things we'll never stop complaining about the *** that has come before.

In my opinion, given what has happened here since Karanka took us up, there's very good reasons for being proactively pessimistic about what's to come. You perhaps see it as nonsensical but I think about the big things people have been negative about in the past few years, Pulis not taking us up in 18/19, Woodgate being the catalyst for failure, Warnock never playing to our strengths, a decent chunk of it has come to pass after being spoken about proactively in advance of the season to come. Nobody is ever 100% right but the general gist of what's to come has been spoken about in advance of what's happened on here in the last few years. The pessimists have not been far wrong. Which isn't good, is it?

[Humpty 3,261]

Fantastic move for Fletcher btw. To secure a 5 year deal at a Premier League club is an amazing move for someone with his talent.

[Neverbefore 10,942]

10 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Fantastic move for Fletcher btw. To secure a 5 year deal at a Premier League club is an amazing move for someone with his talent.

Best agent in the business to get a 7mil move here and then that. Mental.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

46 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I really don't think Warnock is here to keep us 'ticking along', no. I don't quite understand why anyone believes that, to be honest. Does his attitude towards football give off the impression he's happy with mid-table finishes and keeping us going? I don't think so. He's certainly got no reason to worry about money so I don't see that as his reason for being here. So what about this man do people think makes him happy being in charge of a slow-burner that he'll never see the fruits of? When he sits in his press conferences and speaks up Howson, Paddy, Watmore and says "they'll enjoy next season", what do you think he's really saying? Bet you can't wait for another stable season lads, at least I'm in charge though so it'll be a laugh!

What about the signings themselves? Their attitude coming into the club has always been the same throughout the past few years from Howson to Lumley, they join us in the hope to fulfil their Premier League ambitions. Lumley's going on about England ffs. These aren't players hoping we 'punch above our weight' to get promoted, the players we're signing now and signed 6 months ago and beyond under Warnock have come here hoping he'll take us up now because they know he can. No player joining us right now could possibly think promotion is coming in 2-3 years under this manager because his contract is only rolling over from one season to the next. Do you think they're signing looking forward to the next manager?

Any manager worth his salt could take this squad even in its current form and keep it going in this division whilst he takes it step by step in the direction he needs it to go in the long-term. There is literally no reason we shouldn't have the next man in charge already if promotion isn't the aim this season just gone or next season to come. What's the difference between giving the next man the job in 2020, 2021 or 2022? What about us is so unstable that any other manager couldn't have done what Warnock did last season? Some people think its a miracle we finished 10th, I just don't understand it at all.

Ah, poor naive young Wilson. You're falling for the hype. 😁

Warnock is hardly going to sit at a press conference and say we've got nothing to play for and that he's just marking time until he calls it a day. It wouldn't go down well with the fans, the board or the players themselves, would it?

Its just good PR to put a positive spin on things...and signing players is just what any manager does in an effort to improve their squad. Whether he is doing it with promotion in mind, only he knows.

You'd have to ask Gibson to explain our managerial appointments. I'm just guessing at his thinking, given the general expectation Warnock is close to ending his career.

You watched the games last season...the good, the bad and the downright ugly.

Do you really believe that even a manager with Warnock's track record can improve the squad enough AND actually get them playing to the best of their ability, to make us genuine promotion contenders next season?

Maybe he can...maybe he will. I'll be happy to be proven wrong. But I'm as baffled by your optimism and concrete belief that we will (or should) be going up next season, as you are by my pessimism.

I just think there is too much ground to make up in 1 season. I think we need a new manager, a new approach and for the club to be in a better financial situation.

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by AnglianRed

[Blanco 4,917]

16 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Ah, poor naive young Wilson. You're falling for the hype. 😁

Warnock is hardly going to sit at a press conference and say we've got nothing to play for and that he's just marking time until he calls it a day. It wouldn't go down well with the fans, the board or the players themselves, would it?

Its just good PR to put a positive spin on things...and signing players is just what any manager does in an effort to improve their squad. Whether he is doing it with promotion in mind, only he knows.

You'd have to ask Gibson to explain our managerial appointments. I'm just guessing at his thinking, given the general expectation Warnock is close to ending his career.

You watched the games last season...the good, the bad and the downright ugly.

Do you really believe that even a manager with Warnock's track record can improve the squad enough AND actually get them playing to the best of their ability, to make us genuine promotion contenders next season?

Maybe he can...maybe he will. I'll be happy to be proven wrong. But I'm as baffled by your optimism and concrete belief that we will (or should) be going up next season, as you are by my pessimism.

I just think there is too much ground to make up in 1 season. I think we need a new manager, a new approach and for the club to be in a better financial situation.

 

I don’t think that there is too much ground to be made up at all @AnglianRed I think that the general consensus is that Bettinelli cost us points wise so we definitely need a replacement there. I don’t know if Lumley is the answer but I’m hoping that he might be. There won’t be many better back 4’s than Dijksteel Fry Hall and Bola so minor cover possibly needed. A midfield 3 of Morsy McNair and Tav. What’s wrong with that? Cover already in place. A front 3 of a new striker in the Warnock mould flanked by Watmore and hopefully Bolasie if we can keep him. Cover needed.

Do you really think that would be a mile off promotion? 

[AstoriaBoro 152]

34 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Best agent in the business to get a 7mil move here and then that. Mental.

Does Garry Monk also work for Watford 😅

[TLF10 4,497]

Michael Smith has a similar record at this level to James Collins does for Luton.

2yrs ago when Rotherham were here Smith scored 8 goals and 4 assists and this time in Championship he has 10 goals and 3 assists.

Collins got 10 goals this season and 1 assist albeit made 3 less appearances than Smith.

Hopefully we can get smith in at a reasonable price as i think he could be a shrewd signing. 

[Robin Johnson 616]

It wouldn’t surprise me if Warnock has come to the conclusion that neither he or the club are much of a draw. Those who would want to play for him know this will be his last season.I can’t see us getting in a striker of much renown so the likelihood is we will struggle for goals once more.

Depressing scenario? Absolutely. But to me an honest appraisal of what is likely to pad out.

[sambaDTR 260]

Cardiff’s team v Reading for the last match of the 2017/2018 that gained promotion with 90 points. How many of these players would people be moaning about if they started for us next season? The top scorer in the League was Patterson with 10. It’s not the individual that gets promoted (e.g. Britt, Fletch etc). It’s getting a team to gel together and win games. 

 

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

5 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Ah, poor naive young Wilson. You're falling for the hype. 😁

Warnock is hardly going to sit at a press conference and say we've got nothing to play for and that he's just marking time until he calls it a day. It wouldn't go down well with the fans, the board or the players themselves, would it?

Its just good PR to put a positive spin on things.

You watched the games last season...the good, the bad and the downright ugly.

Do you really believe that even a manager with Warnock's track record can improve the squad enough AND actually get them playing to the best of their ability, to make us genuine promotion contenders next season?

Maybe he can...maybe he will. I'll be happy to be proven wrong. But I'm as baffled by your optimism and concrete belief that we will (or should) be going up next season, as you are by my pessimism.

I just think there is too much ground to make up in 1 season. I think we need a new manager, a new approach and for the club to be in a better financial situation.

Naive. 😂

He literally came into a press conference and said we've got no chance of getting promoted. In the lead up to that point, he was saying the exact same things we were, that it was pinned onto the few games around the Barnsley game. Does that look to you like a man putting a positive spin on things? Like a man who is trying to hype up a situation that doesn't exist?

I did watch the games last season and I watched a squad of good players not perform to the best of their ability for a long stretch of the season. We saw it early on, how good this team could be in defensive areas. Yet later in the season we're now supposed to think the lesser performances, losing to the likes of Rotherham and Wycombe at home are the norm and actually that's all that was expected. 🙃

How many games did we lose that we should have won or at least drew? That means the squad is good enough to be higher up the table, that we could (and given who is in charge, should) have been in the play-offs. I don't know what it is about this division this season that makes people think your squad has to be so good to be involved in the play-offs. This division is crap. Every season for ages there have been 2 or 3 clubs you can probably expect to be up there from the quality of their players alone and every other position is up for grabs by a team of decent players putting in good performances most weeks or teams who spend half the season in the bottom half before a string of good games puts them in play-offs contention.

Also, what about my posts represents optimism or pessimism in this regard? It's neither, it's expectation. I'm not sitting here saying he will or won't do anything right now, I'm saying he should or he shouldn't be here, that's been my stance since last season and it hasn't changed. I've said he should have had us in the play-offs minimum, he didn't do it and nothing about the way this season has gone has made me think I should have expected otherwise, so he shouldn't be here in my opinion.

Even putting to one side the idea that Warnock should get this club promoted, you haven't addressed why Warnock being in charge is necessary. If he is just here to stabilise us in any way, what prevents the next manager from doing that? And this is fundamental to the idea he is here to stabilise us for the next man, it makes him necessary despite not having a higher aim for the team. What, does Woodgate's tenure represent anyone with less experience than Warnock could take us down? How bad do you think our squad is right now, even after the close-season's departures? And now, at this pivotal moment since relegation having moved on Britt and Fletcher, why is it Warnock signing the next strikers and not somebody else?

This all falls in line with my stance from last season onwards, I've said all along I'll take mid-table this season just gone if it represented a step on the road towards promotion in the long term, if it represented progress. I'll give a manager time if he gives us time. But he doesn't and he won't, I don't blame him for that at his age to be honest either. But still, having a short-term manager in charge means I have short-term expectations and because he hasn't fulfilled them, he should be gone.

[Redcar Rioja 5,976]

I think Smith and Watmore could be a shrewd pairing up front, different but complementing styles and Watmore could feed off the big lad especially at set pieces. With Warnock's teams it's been more about the synergy of the collective rather than highly paid individuals.

[Neverbefore 10,942]

26 minutes ago, Blanco said:

I don’t think that there is too much ground to be made up at all @AnglianRed I think that the general consensus is that Bettinelli cost us points wise so we definitely need a replacement there. I don’t know if Lumley is the answer but I’m hoping that he might be. There won’t be many better back 4’s than Dijksteel Fry Hall and Bola so minor cover possibly needed. A midfield 3 of Morsy McNair and Tav. What’s wrong with that? Cover already in place. A front 3 of a new striker in the Warnock mould flanked by Watmore and hopefully Bolasie if we can keep him. Cover needed.

Do you really think that would be a mile off promotion? 

I actually don't. But then I thought our squad as it was should have been good enough for top 6 after January.

It's the way we set up and approach our games that will be the real killer. Can't get promoted with 50/50 football in 2021, simple as that. 

[scotty189 931]

37 minutes ago, Blanco said:

I don’t think that there is too much ground to be made up at all @AnglianRed I think that the general consensus is that Bettinelli cost us points wise so we definitely need a replacement there. I don’t know if Lumley is the answer but I’m hoping that he might be. There won’t be many better back 4’s than Dijksteel Fry Hall and Bola so minor cover possibly needed. A midfield 3 of Morsy McNair and Tav. What’s wrong with that? Cover already in place. A front 3 of a new striker in the Warnock mould flanked by Watmore and hopefully Bolasie if we can keep him. Cover needed.

Do you really think that would be a mile off promotion? 

Love the optimism, I'm thinking similar, keeper, 2 wingers, 2 strikers , attack minded cm, and I think we stand a decent chance of promotion. But then again that's half a team 🙂 utfb.