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Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""


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26 minutes ago, Humpty said:

I still haven't managed to get my head round why Howson isn't played in a more advanced role. He carries and uses the ball more intelligently than most of our other midfielders, Tav excluded. Having Morsy on the ball in the final third expecting him to make something happen is wishful thinking from my perspective.

Part of me thinks it's simply because he doesn't have the legs to play further forward.  If you think about the role that Saville and Morsy play without the ball, they are asked to do a lot of pressing, and I'm not sure Howson could manage that for 90 mins week after week.  I dare say that Warnock also views him as the most reliable of the three so sees him as someone who can be trusted to hold position in front of the defence.  The three of them combined to score 8 goals with 10 assists last season.  Some of that is down to how we play but some of it is also down to the individual ability of each of the players.

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8 minutes ago, Brunners said:

As CT rightly mentioned the other day, it's because Howson doesn't have the legs for it, at least not anymore.

That is one reason. The other being that he is about as dangerous in and around the box as a candycane in a swordfight.

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10 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Part of me thinks it's simply because he doesn't have the legs to play further forward.  If you think about the role that Saville and Morsy play without the ball, they are asked to do a lot of pressing, and I'm not sure Howson could manage that for 90 mins week after week.  I dare say that Warnock also views him as the most reliable of the three so sees him as someone who can be trusted to hold position in front of the defence.  The three of them combined to score 8 goals with 10 assists last season.  Some of that is down to how we play but some of it is also down to the individual ability of each of the players.

I'm inclined to agree. I think the legs thing in particular is quite pertinent. We know Warnock likes that press from the front and maybe Howson just doesn't have it in him like the two younger lads do for 90 minutes. I'm surprised Warnock discarded Wing because he does this well. Thought it would be right up Warnock's street. 

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i agree too , but my main annoying thing about all 3 is that theyre not giving us what they gave thier prevuios club. Howson had an eye for spectacular long range goals, Saville made late runs into the box and scored far more frequently and Morsy was a good solid defensive midfielder like clayton was in his prime here. all 3 have become centr-line sideway passers and with no subtlety in thier intentions. Wing i loved for his spectacular long range shooting and goals but midfielder wise there was no more to his armoury and he developed into what he was prior to us signing him..... a northern league class player.

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9 minutes ago, Essuuaitch said:

i agree too , but my main annoying thing about all 3 is that theyre not giving us what they gave thier prevuios club. Howson had an eye for spectacular long range goals, Saville made late runs into the box and scored far more frequently and Morsy was a good solid defensive midfielder like clayton was in his prime here. all 3 have become centr-line sideway passers and with no subtlety in thier intentions. Wing i loved for his spectacular long range shooting and goals but midfielder wise there was no more to his armoury and he developed into what he was prior to us signing him..... a northern league class player.

This is a coaching thing. Morsy said it himself on the podcast he went on the other day; he feels his best position is at the base of the midfield, screening the defence and progressing the ball through the lines. Here, he is being asked to latch onto second balls (he repeated "it's all about second balls" about 4 times) as the ball bypasses our midfield entirely.

Warnock, Woodgate, and Pulis have all been beating this into the players for the last 4-5 seasons. 

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8 minutes ago, Snowblind said:

Just caught up on the thread.

Well that was a long walk down a windy beach to a café that was closed...

Nice one, Allan 😉

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3 hours ago, Humpty said:

I never understand this kind of reasoning. You're happy to sell two of our best players off and make us weaker, to gamble on bringing in two or three new players that may or may not improve us? You've even noted how the clubs recruitment policy is as well 🤷‍♂️

Exactly. Selling Fry and Tav for £50m each wouldn't guarantee a positive end for us. The club has some way to go before it shows people we can invest properly in the market and it should do that within its current means before we start the process of selling our best players just to reinvest.

It's not just a general recruitment thing either. It's having a long term goal with a manager who's expecting to be here for the long term. There's no point selling Fry or Tav whilst Warnock is manager. He wants money to spend for this season and then if he leaves next season, which is more reasonable to expect than with many other managers we could have in charge, the next person in charge has to pick up whatever potential problem he's left in place, with less chance of making something from player sales.

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38 minutes ago, Essuuaitch said:

i agree too , but my main annoying thing about all 3 is that theyre not giving us what they gave thier prevuios club. Howson had an eye for spectacular long range goals, Saville made late runs into the box and scored far more frequently and Morsy was a good solid defensive midfielder like clayton was in his prime here. all 3 have become centr-line sideway passers and with no subtlety in thier intentions. Wing i loved for his spectacular long range shooting and goals but midfielder wise there was no more to his armoury and he developed into what he was prior to us signing him..... a northern league class player.

I'm not picking on you today SUH honeslty...but i have to disagree re; Wing. By no means is he a top class centre midfielder but he's proved (at two clubs now) that he can perform at this level. No midfielder has thrived in our set up probably since Leadbitter and Clayton, so i'm sure why Wing's being singled out especially with he goals return. Seems strange to label his goals return as if it's ALL he can do, like it's not a significant contribution. When we play with three midfielders, i think he's a great option to have in the squad.

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I think the problem with Wing is that apart from a few screamers, he contributes almost nothing. I can forget he's on the pitch for 20 minutes at a time, because the game passes him by. Warnock won't like that, either.

I'd keep Wing and coach him, because he has raw talent far above National League standard, and the worldies are invaluable against tiring defenders. However, for me, he's an impact sub, not a first name on the teamsheet.

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i appreciate your diplomacy Humpty, and i can happily meet you halfway on Wing. for me he is poor in his sence of whats going on around him when we dont have possession, he doesnt play simple passes and can often give hospital passes . hes not great at marking or tackling and not really good aerially plus he doesnt seem to have a massive amount of energy at times. but taking into account his ball striking and pass accuracy when he does get it right i think we missed a trick in not trying him playing behind the strikers or off the striker if only using one. but albeit ,whether its a result of our general impotence as a side that is vastly un creative he certainly held his own within the side many occasions

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I think I would treat Wing as a bit of a luxury player. He’s not a 6 or an 8 for me and he isn’t a traditional number 10. 

As a 10 he isn’t going to do the link up play and move through the pitch but keeping him near a big man and on the edge of the box for second balls and knock downs he would be dangerous.

We know he can strike a ball. The issue for me is that Watmore can probably do this better.

On Howson I think he is played at the base to be our Pirlo and it’s not working.

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  • Downsouth changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""
  • Old Codger changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Sporar Tomorar?""

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