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Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""


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3 hours ago, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

I literally never said they were equals but he's not much better as claimed either, plus it's irrelevant as Bolasie clearly isn't an option for us.

None of them pulled up any trees

Literally called them both average.

Bolasie was significantly more productive, per game or per minute, than Hoilett. And wasn't exactly match fit either. There's a huge gap between them.

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Offer has been accepted bauser has had his critics but he has pulled masterstrokes on both of these.  Now over to you Leo!  Payero small issues look sorted should be an announcement tomorrow or f

Gibson doing a Gibson. Having another punt, pushing for Bolasie, this Argentinian and money available for a couple more. (Not a lot though) Spence going for £5m

Not been keeping up but Sporar should be sorted by Tuesday 

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6 hours ago, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

It was pretty telling that many fans wanted Marvin Johnson back in the side for the second half of the season

Did they? Out of interest, can anyone on here confirm this was the case? 'cause this sounds like nonsense to me.

Bolasie had his critics at times, particularly early on when he clearly needed work done on his fitness but he grew into the side and given the right terms, I think it'd be a deal almost unanimously well received. That certainly wasn't the case 6 months ago or last August/September when Warnock first went after him. It was talk of a man who'd barely played for years, with injury problems, who hadn't done the business at Villa etc. etc. That shifting perception didn't come from nowhere.

Kebano barely put a foot wrong from the moment he stepped in, too. That one was much less surprising as people had seen him play for Fulham and knew he'd played well in recent seasons at this level. Out of the two, the idea that 'many fans' wanted Marvin Johnson back in the side because of his failed effect on the team is farcical. I've honestly no idea where you've pulled that one from.

At best, we're talking people in sheer desperation for changes because the team as a whole wasn't working, i.e. "He's got to change something because this isn't working". Anyone in their right mind would know that had nothing to do with Bolasie or Kebano's abilities on the pitch. And I think you'd be hard pushed to find many team preferences in the 2nd half of the season that included Johnson whilst excluding either or both of Kebano and Bolasie.

There's no doubt we were worse in the 2nd half of the season but that rut started before either of those players came in. Our eventual failure was very little to do with those two players' individual talents.

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Personally I can’t stand the Gibson bashing. Have you heard of financial fair play. There’s only so much he can do and put into the club. Even if he had multi billions spare lying around he couldn’t say here you go here’s a transfer budget. Even with a takeover they would have the same spend limit so would be no difference.

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The only way we can spend more is to increase income, selling players, tickets and merchandise. Only with a full ground and will the last two happen so the the only other way is to sell players, we can either replace or are surplus. Gibson currently puts in the maximum, but he won't be around forever so he wants the club to be run in a sustainable manner, so why are people anti sustainability?

 

The money Gibson does put in should be for player purchases, not just used to keep the club afloat.

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If I may indulge in an analogy, when we had lots of money, we spunked it right up the wall. Now we have limited money, we'll spunk it over the carpet instead. Our recruitment policy could be summed up in one word - bukkake. And in the meantime, better-managed clubs with smaller historic budgets continue to outperform us.

I'm okay with signing lower-league players if that's all we can afford now. It's just sad that we wasted so many seasons throwing millions at the likes of Flint. We overspent and underperformed. And now we have to struggle along with a bare-bones squad and the prospect of maybe signing a Wycombe striker. It'll take a while to lower our expectations accordingly.

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52 minutes ago, Riverside94 said:

Personally I can’t stand the Gibson bashing. Have you heard of financial fair play. There’s only so much he can do and put into the club. Even if he had multi billions spare lying around he couldn’t say here you go here’s a transfer budget. Even with a takeover they would have the same spend limit so would be no difference.

I prefer to deal in facts. And the fact is we are somewhere in the region of 100 times greater in debt than when we went bust back in the 80’s.

The value of our entire playing staff is not enough to match this debt.

There is no chance of us being attractive to any prospective buyer - even if the club was given away and the buyer inherited the debt.

So whilst it is true fans of mature years enjoyed the best of times - with players we could only dream of seeing playing for MFC- this has come at a mighty cost. Namely the debt.

We have nearly turned a full circle now with us having to operate- survive- on free transfers to fill out a depleted squad. From my perspective I cannot see how we will be anywhere near a promotion challenge given the extreme difficulty we appear to have in attracting what conceivably the best of this bunch.

so praise Gibbo blindly if that is your want. Whilst there is a lot to be thankful to him about there is equally a lot where his stewardship has been financially crippling for a club of our size. The manner we have been run financially is not great and when scrutinised it demonstrates financial mismanagement to a very large scale. The sheer volume of our indebtedness tends to add weight to this.

so in analysis whilst Gibbo can be seen as the only solution, equally in my mind he can stand accused of being the greatest problem - certainly in my mind.

Edited by Robin Johnson
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48 minutes ago, Riverside94 said:

Personally I can’t stand the Gibson bashing. Have you heard of financial fair play. There’s only so much he can do and put into the club. Even if he had multi billions spare lying around he couldn’t say here you go here’s a transfer budget. Even with a takeover they would have the same spend limit so would be no difference.

I dont think anyone has ever criticised Gibson for the financial support he continues to give the club. His commitment isn't whats at fault.

No amount of money would help if its all being wasted through abysmal decisions and a complete lack of planning and foresight. Its this area that Gibson gets rightfully criticised and something simply has to change in that regard.

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1 hour ago, Riverside94 said:

Personally I can’t stand the Gibson bashing. Have you heard of financial fair play. There’s only so much he can do and put into the club. Even if he had multi billions spare lying around he couldn’t say here you go here’s a transfer budget. Even with a takeover they would have the same spend limit so would be no difference.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never bashed him for not putting more money into the club. I shudder to think how much he has sunk into Boro over the years, knowing he will never get it back. I'm also grateful he continues to subsidise the annual running costs.

What I have been bashing him for is his total inability to think any further forward than the next season, his chopping and changing of mangers every couple of seasons (with the resultant changes in playing staff), some truly terrible decision making and his seeming refusal over the years to let go the reins of power and bring in people who could help run the club in a sustainable manner, the way Stuart Webber and his team did for Norwich.

Gibson has in fact contributed to the club's financial problems through his short-term thinking...reacting to problems and trying to "fire fight", instead of sitting down and drawing up a plan for the next few seasons, based on the club's current financial standing, with contingencies, should we either look like getting promoted or relegated.

In short, spending what money we have wisely and in a planned manner, rather than throwing a bunch of money at a manager in the hope he will get us promoted that season.

I mean we were even spending way beyond our means in the PL...somehow...

When we were getting all that money from Sky, you'd have thought one of the club's first priorities would be to make sure Boro were in a financially sound position.

 

Edited by AnglianRed
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26 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

If I may indulge in an analogy, when we had lots of money, we spunked it right up the wall. Now we have limited money, we'll spunk it over the carpet instead. Our recruitment policy could be summed up in one word - bukkake. And in the meantime, better-managed clubs with smaller historic budgets continue to outperform us.

I'm okay with signing lower-league players if that's all we can afford now. It's just sad that we wasted so many seasons throwing millions at the likes of Flint. We overspent and underperformed. And now we have to struggle along with a bare-bones squad and the prospect of maybe signing a Wycombe striker. It'll take a while to lower our expectations accordingly.

"Bukkake Football" -  sounds like a Japanese sport-porn site. 😂

I agree though. The club's decision-making and financial management has been pretty abysmal for some time now.

 

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Bukakka comes from the Japanese for “Ritual humiliation” which is very apt for what Boro have been serving up under the likes of Monk, Pulis, Woodgate and Warnock as our Saturday 3pm ritual 😳

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14 minutes ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

We have essentially gone full circle in the last 12 years. We are in about the same situation as we were when we appointed Mogga. 

Evidently with a lot more debt though. A matter only cured by reaching the Premier league, which we can't afford to fund. Lots of luck needed, which isn't normally a Boro thing.

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5 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Did they? Out of interest, can anyone on here confirm this was the case? 'cause this sounds like nonsense to me.

Bolasie had his critics at times, particularly early on when he clearly needed work done on his fitness but he grew into the side and given the right terms, I think it'd be a deal almost unanimously well received. That certainly wasn't the case 6 months ago or last August/September when Warnock first went after him. It was talk of a man who'd barely played for years, with injury problems, who hadn't done the business at Villa etc. etc. That shifting perception didn't come from nowhere.

Kebano barely put a foot wrong from the moment he stepped in, too. That one was much less surprising as people had seen him play for Fulham and knew he'd played well in recent seasons at this level. Out of the two, the idea that 'many fans' wanted Marvin Johnson back in the side because of his failed effect on the team is farcical. I've honestly no idea where you've pulled that one from.

At best, we're talking people in sheer desperation for changes because the team as a whole wasn't working, i.e. "He's got to change something because this isn't working". Anyone in their right mind would know that had nothing to do with Bolasie or Kebano's abilities on the pitch. And I think you'd be hard pushed to find many team preferences in the 2nd half of the season that included Johnson whilst excluding either or both of Kebano and Bolasie.

There's no doubt we were worse in the 2nd half of the season but that rut started before either of those players came in. Our eventual failure was very little to do with those two players' individual talents.

Before Christmas Johnson was our top scorer and with the most assists. Watmore came in towards the end of the year and done really well eventually overtaking him (not too difficult when he wasn't playing), but then came the January Transfer window and despite NML, Bolasie and Kebano all being better on paper the results weren't. Towards the end Bolasie was getting fitter and looked  like he was maybe getting back to his previous high standards but even then it still isn't nailed on. Kebano looked decent and tidy at times but with nothing to show for it in reality, I'd have him back but I'm not fussed if we have to go elsewhere.

Our decline and slide started when Johnson was dropped for these "better" players. Does that make Marvin a better Player than them? of course not. Was he more effective for us than them, in my opinion yes.

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Gibson has made mistakes but:

We've never gone down to League One like several clubs

He has already written off one set of £100m in debt.

We've had longer in the Prem that nearly all the club's you'd compare us with.

Looking forward hopefully we do get a DoF and build a model of Academy+bargain transfers.

Let's see how this summer pans out. Get off off to a decent start and we could have a decent season.

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  • Downsouth changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""
  • Old Codger changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Sporar Tomorar?""

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