Jump to content
oneBoro Forum

Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""


Recommended Posts

On 7/5/2021 at 7:09 PM, p_mards said:

Sorry for sprinkling some question marks over the football rationale behind us targeting Payero. I just find it hard to understand. Is it for a marquee buzz? Is it to tap into the "Gibson spoils us again" narrative? Is signing a South American flair player a way to create an illusion of a sophisticated and modern recruitment set up? I obviously don't know, however, the one thing I'm for certain about is that it runs completely contrary to our transfer dealings since Gibson removed Victor Orta in the Summer of 2017. Since then our recruitment has been as shambolic and wasteful as I can remember despite us heavily focusing on the domestic market - which is supposed to be safer but more inflated. It also runs contrary to Warnock's transfer dealings when getting promoted with his previous Championship clubs. At the moment we're signing the likes of: Lumley, Peltier, Ameobi and Ikpeazu, which I can see a lot of logic and shrewdness in, on free transfers or relatively small fees, so to supposedly have around £5 million stashed away for Payero feels completely disjointed from the football rationale underlining our previous signings. Unless, of course, the rationale is not exclusively footballing related. Gibson seems to have a fixation on marquee type of signings to generate some excitement from the fans, even if it's not sensible business, and is rumoured to have gone over several managers heads to bring in the likes Woodgate, Downing & Rhodes, so that can't be ruled out.

I'd much prefer we had one cohesive long-term strategy that was wholly focused upon a solid footballing rationale of signing unknown gems and then selling them on for a huge profit like Norwich and Brentford, but unfortunately we have to accommodate Gibson's corrosive, counter-progressive, PR obsessed approach to running a football club. Whilst I'm excited about us potentially signing Payero, it's just that I don't understand the rationale behind it as it goes against Boro's transfer dealings over the past 4 years and Warnock's career transfer dealings in the Championship. 

After my early question marks regarding us targeting Payero, I'm intrigued by Warnock's quotes within the Gazette today: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/middlesbrough-monitoring-more-south-american-21073267

 

The quotes:

"I don't want more than two," said Warnock, when asked how many South American players Boro could look to sign this summer.

"We are looking at another couple of Brazilians and Argentinians, but whether we get them or not (is not certain)."

"The recruitment guys gave it to us and then Leo looked into it," said Warnock.

"Steve, for all we haven’t got a lot of money, he always wants to gamble with the Argentinians and the Brazilians."

"He (Payero) is young, a good age, is going to the Olympics so it may not be a bad gamble."

 

From these quotes, it's clear that it is Steve Gibson's personal preference for us to sign some Argentinians or Brazilians, and that Warnock is at best open to accommodating them. Warnock's quotes are enlightening, yet concerning, as we now know that we have two separate recruitment strategies: one of Warnock focusing on value for money domestic signings, and the second of Gibson pushing signings from Argentina or Brazil that are going to cost a lot more. I say concerning, firstly, because history generally tells us that the more Steve Gibson gets involved, the more we mess up and waste money needlessly. The second reason for my concern is because I think we would operate far more effectively with one cohesive long-term strategy that has robust, objective recruitment processes that focused on all the continents like the successful benchmarks of Norwich and Brentford. Signing players just because "Steve Gibson has a bit of a thing for Argentinians and Brazilians" is not how any competitive football club should operate. His individual preferences are absolutely irrelevant, and should be treated as such.

Edited by p_mards
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 19.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  •  

    938

  •  

    899

  •  

    687

  •  

    578

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Offer has been accepted bauser has had his critics but he has pulled masterstrokes on both of these.  Now over to you Leo!  Payero small issues look sorted should be an announcement tomorrow or f

Gibson doing a Gibson. Having another punt, pushing for Bolasie, this Argentinian and money available for a couple more. (Not a lot though) Spence going for £5m

Not been keeping up but Sporar should be sorted by Tuesday 

Posted Images

1 hour ago, p_mards said:

After my early question marks regarding us targeting Payero, I'm intrigued by Warnock's quotes within the Gazette today: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/middlesbrough-monitoring-more-south-american-21073267

 

The quotes:

"I don't want more than two," said Warnock, when asked how many South American players Boro could look to sign this summer.

"We are looking at another couple of Brazilians and Argentinians, but whether we get them or not (is not certain)."

"The recruitment guys gave it to us and then Leo looked into it," said Warnock.

"Steve, for all we haven’t got a lot of money, he always wants to gamble with the Argentinians and the Brazilians."

"He (Payero) is young, a good age, is going to the Olympics so it may not be a bad gamble."

 

From these quotes, it's clear that it is Steve Gibson's personal preference for us to sign some Argentinians or Brazilians, and that Warnock is at best open to accommodating them. Warnock's quotes are enlightening, yet concerning, as we now know that we have two separate recruitment strategies: one of Warnock focusing on value for money domestic signings, and the second of Gibson pushing signings from Argentina or Brazil that are going to cost a lot more. I say concerning, firstly, because history generally tells us that the more Steve Gibson gets involved, the more we mess up and waste money needlessly. The second reason for my concern is because I think we would operate far more effectively with one cohesive long-term strategy that has robust, objective recruitment processes that focused on all the continents like the successful benchmarks of Norwich and Brentford. Signing players just because "Steve Gibson has a bit of a thing for Argentinians and Brazilians" is not how any competitive football club should operate. His individual preferences are absolutely irrelevant, and should be treated as such.

Where does it say Steve has a bit of a thing for Argentinians and Brazilians?

Surely it's more a case that Gibson under advice has been told there are opportunities with South America for players at good prices who could be saleable. That's good business

Edited by SzilardNemethsCurtains
Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, p_mards said:

After my early question marks regarding us targeting Payero, I'm intrigued by Warnock's quotes within the Gazette today: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/middlesbrough-monitoring-more-south-american-21073267

 

The quotes:

"I don't want more than two," said Warnock, when asked how many South American players Boro could look to sign this summer.

"We are looking at another couple of Brazilians and Argentinians, but whether we get them or not (is not certain)."

"The recruitment guys gave it to us and then Leo looked into it," said Warnock.

"Steve, for all we haven’t got a lot of money, he always wants to gamble with the Argentinians and the Brazilians."

"He (Payero) is young, a good age, is going to the Olympics so it may not be a bad gamble."

 

From these quotes, it's clear that it is Steve Gibson's personal preference for us to sign some Argentinians or Brazilians, and that Warnock is at best open to accommodating them. Warnock's quotes are enlightening, yet concerning, as we now know that we have two separate recruitment strategies: one of Warnock focusing on value for money domestic signings, and the second of Gibson pushing signings from Argentina or Brazil that are going to cost a lot more. I say concerning, firstly, because history generally tells us that the more Steve Gibson gets involved, the more we mess up and waste money needlessly. The second reason for my concern is because I think we would operate far more effectively with one cohesive long-term strategy that has robust, objective recruitment processes that focused on all the continents like the successful benchmarks of Norwich and Brentford. Signing players just because "Steve Gibson has a bit of a thing for Argentinians and Brazilians" is not how any competitive football club should operate. His individual preferences are absolutely irrelevant, and should be treated as such.

You are making it out that Steve Gibson personally scouts the players and signs them. That’s not the case at all. By all accounts we now have a South American scouting network via Leo and his contacts over there. It would be absolutely negligent of Gibson not to look into using that network. Warnock appears quite happy to me to be able to avail of these players. By saying we are after one or two is him trying to dampen down the expectations a bit. I think it’s fantastic to have a dual approach to recruitment and not be stuck in the domestic market only. I’m pretty sure that there was a lot of complaining on here that we weren’t looking to the foreign market. Now that we are it seems to be a problem too. I feel for Steve Gibson, the poor man can’t win whatever he does 🙄

  • Like 13
Link to post
Share on other sites

Um it says our scouts identified players in South America particularly Payero. They showed the names to Warnock who then got Leo to have a look they were impressed so Warnock asked Gibson if possible to make a couple bigger purchases for young promising South American players and he said yeah let's go for it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

Where does it say Steve has a bit of a thing for Argentinians and Brazilians?

Surely it's more a case that Gibson under advice has been told there are opportunities with South America for players at good prices who could be saleable. That's good business

"Steve, for all we haven’t got a lot of money, he always wants to gamble with the Argentinians and the Brazilians."

There 🤷‍♂️

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blanco said:

I feel for Steve Gibson, the poor man can’t win whatever he does 🙄

I don't feel for him very much at all at the moment but if he steers the club in the right direction then he earns a good chunk of the credit.

I don't quite understand what he's done right yet, though. Buying a player from South America isn't worthy of credit alone. It's something different to the norm which means it's definitely worth keeping an eye on. But I still have concerns about the idea he's just gone "Argentinians, Brazilians, yes mate, Juninho and all that, lets do the samba". Remember what happened the last time he did that?

image.png.6a44ca94f4d5841b7960476812b1c43f.png

I'm on the fence about it all right now which I think given my immediate previous on Gibson is a pretty positive shift. Payero and whoever else comes in could be the start of something good. It shows a bit of initiative to react to the changes in the UK to start utilising the links we have in that region of the world. But I'd be a lot more confident if there was a genuine football director overseeing this idea and not just Gibson and Bausor.

Like Lumley, Ameobi and Ikpeazu, whoever comes in from elsewhere has done nowt for the Boro yet so by all means lets get behind them when they come and give them the best chance of succeeding... but let's not declare it a success before it has even began.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I don't feel for him very much at all at the moment but if he steers the club in the right direction then he earns a good chunk of the credit.

I don't quite understand what he's done right yet, though. Buying a player from South America isn't worthy of credit alone. It's something different to the norm which means it's definitely worth keeping an eye on. But I still have concerns about the idea he's just gone "Argentinians, Brazilians, yes mate, Juninho and all that, lets do the samba". Remember what happened the last time he did that?

image.png.6a44ca94f4d5841b7960476812b1c43f.png

I'm on the fence about it all right now which I think given my immediate previous on Gibson is a pretty positive shift. Payero and whoever else comes in could be the start of something good. It shows a bit of initiative to react to the changes in the UK to start utilising the links we have in that region of the world. But I'd be a lot more confident if there was a genuine football director overseeing this idea and not just Gibson and Bausor.

Like Lumley, Ameobi and Ikpeazu, whoever comes in from elsewhere has done nowt for the Boro yet so by all means lets get behind them when they come and give them the best chance of succeeding... but let's not declare it a success before it has even began.

I haven’t declared it a success at all. I merely pointed out that if we only look to the domestic market Gibson is vilified. Now when we spread our wings to South America he is also vilified. He can’t win 🤷‍♂️

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Blanco said:

I haven’t declared it a success at all. I merely pointed out that if we only look to the domestic market Gibson is vilified. Now when we spread our wings to South America he is also vilified. He can’t win 🤷‍♂️

Sorry, I wasn't saying you were, more just giving my thoughts on the idea he can't win.

In my opinion, he shouldn't be winning because of what's happened so far. He's indicating a possible change in recruitment policy but still possibly showcasing the same problems of control. Willingness to put his money into the club has never been Gibson's problem so on the front of being the chairman and owner, nothing has changed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Sorry, I wasn't saying you were, more just giving my thoughts on the idea he can't win.

In my opinion, he shouldn't be winning because of what's happened so far. He's indicating a possible change in recruitment policy but still possibly showcasing the same problems of control. Willingness to put his money into the club has never been Gibson's problem so on the front of being the chairman and owner, nothing has changed.

I suppose at the end of the season he will win 

When we go up as champions 🏆

😃😃😃

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

Not exactly the same thing, is it?

It sounds like the same thing?  I'm not sure what you think is different about it?  I don't know whether he does or doesn't, just read the article like everyone else.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Blanco said:

I suppose at the end of the season he will win 

When we go up as champions 🏆

😃😃😃

Can the mods make this one of those Borolad deals where if this doesn't happen then Blanco has to leave the forum? 🤷‍♂️

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Downsouth changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""
  • Old Codger changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Sporar Tomorar?""

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...