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Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""


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Offer has been accepted bauser has had his critics but he has pulled masterstrokes on both of these.  Now over to you Leo!  Payero small issues look sorted should be an announcement tomorrow or f

Gibson doing a Gibson. Having another punt, pushing for Bolasie, this Argentinian and money available for a couple more. (Not a lot though) Spence going for £5m

Not been keeping up but Sporar should be sorted by Tuesday 

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@SzilardNemethsCurtains

Not trying to sell anybody, just wondered what people thought, don't see him starting in a back 4, with added CB cover he may not get into the 3 either, CM is well stocked and we need funds for attacking players, hence the curiosity in what people thought

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12 minutes ago, estonpidge said:

@SzilardNemethsCurtains

Not trying to sell anybody, just wondered what people thought, don't see him starting in a back 4, with added CB cover he may not get into the 3 either, CM is well stocked and we need funds for attacking players, hence the curiosity in what people thought

Not necessarily you, I understand why you pose the question. He was the one player who played every game last season, I think he will be an important figure once again especially if we play with a back 3

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1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

No but you wouldn't spend money you didn't have if you didn't expect to get it, would you? Especially if it's going to put you in a troublesome position. I just don't see a direct correlation between us signing Crooks in particular over anybody else, including potential transfers. Add in the rest of the summer transfers as well because they all cost a sum of money to us in the short and long term that a sale would cover.

What you're suggesting is not really based on anything. The club hasn't suggested we need to sell this summer where we don't actually want to so I don't know why anyone, in that atmosphere, would suggest we should sell a first-team player to fund any moves unless they undoubtedly make us better. If that were different then sure but I don't think we buy all the players we're hoping to right now under the pretence that we can sell McNair for a significant sum in a few weeks time. Has there even been any realistic interest in him this summer? If not then that's not a good start for justifying overspending then recouping costs later is it?

All clubs have to work to a budget and I'm willing to bet Neil Warnock would rather keep Paddy McNair than have to sell him to spend somewhere else, especially if it comes to selling him just to improve squad depth. The first and most important thing for any team is to have a strong first 11, squad depth is secondary. The players you want to play 40+ games a season are your first priority.

Who have we been linked with or signed this summer who is undoubtedly a significant improvement on what we had last year? I guess you could argue Ikpeazu in the fact he is much more of the kind of striker Warnock wants but beyond that, is there anyone we've signed who indisputably makes our first team better? Crooks might be better than Saville, Lumley might be better than Bettinelli, Peltier is cover (particularly for an injured full-back) and I wouldn't say Ameobi is any better than Watmore or Tav. People say a lot about these South Americans but there are very few people on here who actually know if they're any good. Brown and Bryan, I don't know a great deal about these either but are they expected to start games ahead of anybody else? Are they better than any of our current players? If that answer is not an immediate yes, why sell McNair to fund them being here?

If we're struggling for money and we need to sell to fund moves, we'll definitely try to sell. But I don't see any indications that we need to, not when Gibson is finding money out of nowhere to fund moves for a couple of South Americans. Those in particular seem to be our intended big purchases this summer and I don't see how a business in this climate goes in to spend that sort of money if they need to sell to fund them and spend that money before they have any inclination that they'll make it back.

It's called speculation, all businesses do it, some do it rashly and some do it very wisely, knowing that they can cash in, acquiring one or more assets that you believe is of more use to you in the belief that you can unload another to cover it. I'm not saying that I want to sell McNair, Tav or Fry what I am saying is where is all this money coming from to find the ten players that we need this Summer. You can't seriously believe that Gibson will find money out of nowhere Ken Dodds style in this current climate?

Gibson may be willing to do a Villa and go for broke but we could equally likely end up like Derby and after 1986 I don't think he would put the Club in that type of jeopardy. If we need ten players then we may have to sell a few including Akpom to put some funds back in the pot. If nobody wants Akpom then we will need to sell another asset to balance the books. Selling what you want rid off is great but sometimes buyers aren't interested and they want something you would prefer to keep. Selling Akpom may not generate enough funds or Spence come to that.

Having Paddy and his adaptability is great but he can't play in or cover three positions all at the same time. I'm not claiming that the signings will be individually better than what we had (or have) but that the squad should be bigger and better balanced overall. If you seriously believe that a first 11 is the main criteria in todays game then it is futile trying to have the discussion. When injuries, fatigue, loss of form and suspensions hit then whatever our first 11 had achieved will be worthless when we start to plummet down the Championship unable to name a full bench or putting kids on it.

It's not an argument about whether or not we should sell one of our better players its a reality check for a few of us on here getting carried away about buying South Americans etc. Since we lost the Parachute payments and relieved the rest up a wall we have had to cut costs, so what has suddenly changed over the last twelve months that has improved finances? Have we forgotten the Pulis era and the Woodgate farce so soon? Getting Britt and Fletcher off the wage bill has helped but not enough to go on a spending spree when MFC have been hemorrhaging money for years.

It's great if we get all these targeted players but what I am saying is don't be surprised if there is a sting in the tail.

 

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33 minutes ago, Redcar Rioja said:

It's called speculation, all businesses do it, some do it rashly and some do it very wisely, knowing that they can cash in, acquiring one or more assets that you believe is of more use to you in the belief that you can unload another to cover it. I'm not saying that I want to sell McNair, Tav or Fry what I am saying is where is all this money coming from to find the ten players that we need this Summer. You can't seriously believe that Gibson will find money out of nowhere Ken Dodds style in this current climate?

Gibson may be willing to do a Villa and go for broke but we could equally likely end up like Derby and after 1986 I don't think he would put the Club in that type of jeopardy. If we need ten players then we may have to sell a few including Akpom to put some funds back in the pot. If nobody wants Akpom then we will need to sell another asset to balance the books. Selling what you want rid off is great but sometimes buyers aren't interested and they want something you would prefer to keep. Selling Akpom may not generate enough funds or Spence come to that.

Having Paddy and his adaptability is great but he can't play in or cover three positions all at the same time. I'm not claiming that the signings will be individually better than what we had (or have) but that the squad should be bigger and better balanced overall. If you seriously believe that a first 11 is the main criteria in todays game then it is futile trying to have the discussion. When injuries, fatigue, loss of form and suspensions hit then whatever our first 11 had achieved will be worthless when we start to plummet down the Championship unable to name a full bench or putting kids on it.

It's not an argument about whether or not we should sell one of our better players its a reality check for a few of us on here getting carried away about buying South Americans etc. Since we lost the Parachute payments and relieved the rest up a wall we have had to cut costs, so what has suddenly changed over the last twelve months that has improved finances? Have we forgotten the Pulis era and the Woodgate farce so soon? Getting Britt and Fletcher off the wage bill has helped but not enough to go on a spending spree when MFC have been hemorrhaging money for years.

It's great if we get all these targeted players but what I am saying is don't be surprised if there is a sting in the tail.

 

I don't think anybody is being unrealistic as such, just reading the situation as it's presented to them. We haven't spent over the top already, we've spent barely £2m in transfer fees on 2 players so far as well as recouping what sounds like nearly that from selling one player. I'd be shocked if our wage bill wasn't down on last season even adding a couple of others. Adding Ciaron Brown and Kean Bryan on top of what we've already done surely won't break the bank enough to have to sell a huge asset, though I would be a little shocked if we were after both, I reckon it's only one of the two who we'll end up with by design.

As for whatever we spend on Payero and whoever else, well it wouldn't be the first time Gibson has found a few extra quid will it? Where did the £5.5m for Downing come from? The £10m for Rhodes or whatever it was? In mildly better times yes but even then, it doesn't look like we're going to be spending anywhere near that right now. We don't know for sure but I'd be very shocked if the Payero deal wasn't heavily incentivised by the collective performance of him and the club. Even the Ikpeazu deal apparently has those kind of incentives in it. The kind that ultimately don't bear fruit for the selling club unless we do well.

What I would say is if it doesn't work this season and we don't go up then yes, I would expect someone like McNair or Tav to go. I think we'll probably see they want to leave as much as we may need to sell them. But this summer because we're spending a little? I just don't see where that comes from. There doesn't seem to be any kind of speculation linking anyone but those fringe players away from the club and if there was any sense of necessity in selling, we'd surely have heard it by now. We did when we had to sell Bamford and Gibson, we had a full summer of speculation going around about Traore before Wolves finally took him. Who has even been linked with our bigger players this summer other than the usual 'Burnley after Fry' tripe?

Is it realistic to expect us to sell any player who isn't getting linked with a move away? That's not just a question to pose to yourself but to the club too. If we need to sell, surely we'd not be waiting until all of our own deals are over the line before starting to put something out there. That would be a risk.

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1 hour ago, estonpidge said:

@SzilardNemethsCurtains

Not trying to sell anybody, just wondered what people thought, don't see him starting in a back 4, with added CB cover he may not get into the 3 either, CM is well stocked and we need funds for attacking players, hence the curiosity in what people thought

Do think you have a point. In a back 4 there's no chance he's starting before Hall or Fry*.

Then in midfield we saw Warnock prefer Howson, Saville and Morsy a lot last season, we've effectively replaced Saville with Crooks. So a presumption on my part, but I'm thinking Warnock will stick with Morsy, Howson and Crooks as a midfield 3. To be totally honest the times McNair has played midfield, in my opinion, he's not been a standout performer. 

That said if we are going to be playing a 3 at the back McNair is absolutely vital for us. His ability on the ball and bringing it out of defence is crucial if we are to play a 3.

* If they are both fit.

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2 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Do think you have a point. In a back 4 there's no chance he's starting before Hall or Fry*.

Then in midfield we saw Warnock prefer Howson, Saville and Morsy a lot last season, we've effectively replaced Saville with Crooks. So a presumption on my part, but I'm thinking Warnock will stick with Morsy, Howson and Crooks as a midfield 3. To be totally honest the times McNair has played midfield, in my opinion, he's not been a standout performer. 

That said if we are going to be playing a 3 at the back McNair is absolutely vital for us. His ability on the ball and bringing it out of defence is crucial if we are to play a 3.

* If they are both fit.

not after Payero is in and settled, I don't think

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2 minutes ago, Brunners said:

I think it might be Morsy - Payero - Crooks

Morsy payero with crooks as one of the front 3 is my assumption (especially if we're going with the 523). Though I think it will be morsy and howson for at least the first couple of months as payero acclimatises. 

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Payero isn't as well suited to being an attacking runner and finding the space as was evident against Egypt. He is better receiving the ball and making the inventive passes to the forward runners of watmore, Tav, Ameobi, ikapezu. Like he did against Argentina

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3 hours ago, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

It's a bit weird that people are randomly trying to sell off McNair, has it gone that quiet?

I'm not trying to join in with getting him sold but wasn't there some stuff about us being open to selling him at the start of the summer?  Or was it just that there was the odd link with him and a move?

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18 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I'm not trying to join in with getting him sold but wasn't there some stuff about us being open to selling him at the start of the summer?  Or was it just that there was the odd link with him and a move?

Quite possibly, there was lots last summer with Stoke etc but can't really recall for this summer

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1 hour ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Do think you have a point. In a back 4 there's no chance he's starting before Hall or Fry*.

Then in midfield we saw Warnock prefer Howson, Saville and Morsy a lot last season, we've effectively replaced Saville with Crooks. So a presumption on my part, but I'm thinking Warnock will stick with Morsy, Howson and Crooks as a midfield 3. To be totally honest the times McNair has played midfield, in my opinion, he's not been a standout performer. 

That said if we are going to be playing a 3 at the back McNair is absolutely vital for us. His ability on the ball and bringing it out of defence is crucial if we are to play a 3.

* If they are both fit.

I think your final sentence there is key, Fry and Hall won't be fit all season judging off recent history. That said going off pre season I think he's likely to start in midfield alongside Morsy and Payero (if he comes), Crooks will be higher up the pitch

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  • Downsouth changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Post Mortem Time""
  • Old Codger changed the title to Dan's Summer Transfer Thread. Aka: " Sporar Tomorar?""

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