Swansea are the leagues worst cheats and the rest of us have cottoned on

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

14 hours ago, Duvel said:

I bet i could go back and find footage of most of our players diving at some point or another. Its become part of the game. 

It just makes me laugh how loads of football fans wear these rose tinted specs all the time, they think every ref is against their team and the opposition get away with things that their team don't.   

Its the sort of argument that children use.

I definitely agree with this. I don't agree with the idea that it 'evens itself out' over the course of the season or that you can't end up feeling like you're playing against 12 men during a game, though, which are views that are sometimes held alongside these ones. Both teams can end up feeling like that in the same game if the referee is bad enough.

14 hours ago, Duvel said:

The football authorities could sort out cheating and improve the standard of refereeing within weeks if the appetite was really there. Bring in retrospective bans and harsh punishment for the cheats and the game would soon clean up. Then if we didn't have 22 players cheating the refs every week then the standard would improve.

I do mostly agree with this but there is undoubtedly a grey area that referees as a whole don't help themselves with when you get some of them coming out with crap like "If you don't go down, I can't give you anything". In my opinion, that encourages the diving mentality and it encourages it in all levels of football. I think a lot of players make a meal of genuine fouls just to make sure they win something and all it takes is for someone to genuinely think they've been fouled, when they haven't, in order to take a dive. If it's a foul, it's a foul and if the referees can't spot it without simulated acts then I think it's more that they're not fit for purpose in this scenario.

But then I'd argue with the introduction of VAR, there's not a lot they are best placed to do other than essentially being the players' point of contact on the pitch, as I've mentioned before I think that referees in the middle and VAR are at odds with one another when the authority could easily just be distributed better.

14 hours ago, Duvel said:

I hear managers and pundits talk every week about the terrible standard of refereeing but they never complain when their own players cheat. And who would want to take up refereeing nowadays? I played a game in adults football a few years ago with a young teenage ref and he was literally chased off the pitch by the players from the opposing team because he gave a decision against them.

I wouldn't say it's hugely relevant how players actions in the level of football you're talking about corresponds to the quality of referees who have been reffing the top levels of professional football for years. These referees have made it through that and you'll struggle to find a referee who gets chased off a pitch in the level we're ultimately talking about. Sure, it will affect the route from grassroots but they aren't the refs people are calling terrible every week.

14 hours ago, Duvel said:

We have a culture in the game where cheating is accepted and referees get absolutely zero respect, and our manager is one of the biggest culprits. 

We do have a culture of accepted cheating. We have a culture of managers who look the other way rather than give honest appraisals of situations in the game. We have managers who give their post-match interviews reciting to the millisecond the detail of how they were hard done by, whilst when asked about decisions that went in their favour just say they haven't seen it back.

I just don't know how I feel about people labelling Warnock as 'one of the biggest culprits'. Warnock exists within a swathe of people in football who criticise referees, people seem to have this view that he's effectively got them by the throat when most sit and have a nice conversation with them. The idea he's having a tantrum on the side-lines like @Borodane mentions above seems like an overwhelming exaggeration of what actually happens.

When the stadiums are full, we have collectively 10s of thousands of people who call referees *** every week, whatever he does doesn't even come close to that, so I'd say managers aren't even the biggest problem when it comes to giving referees zero respect. Even just talking about manager discipline though, how many yellow or red cards have Warnock, Blackwell and Jepson had in their time here? If it's that bad, the referee has it in their repertoire to judge their actions as dissent and put them in the book. It's not like fans are drowning out their assessments right now so whatever they're saying, the ref is probably hearing it and they have the power to do something about it.

[Old Codger 3,062]

whilst not condoning NW's referee rants, most of the time he only has a pop when something blatant has happened and if I was a player, I think I would appreciate my boss saying, " yes, he should have been done for almost taking your eye out" more than "it is what it is". We all know that some players go down easier than others but I would like to think most of our players are fairly genuine. The old saying that the best referee is the one that you don't notice still holds true, but I think it would help some them to not just chat over the mikes and make a show of walking across to the line and discussing decisions. only takes a few seconds and even if they are saying "is the chippy still open", it gives them time to consider things and often lets situations cool down. I also think it would help if the ref had to do a media spot after a game like the managers, we rarely get to hear their viewpoint and if something I totally missed has affected a decision, then I for one would be more accepting. There are no easy solutions, but even just a short clampdown on simulation would help and move back to handball only being given if arm moves to make contact rather than just ball hits arm and that's it. The only other suggestion I would add is that I like the NFL thing where the ref says why foul is given " Millwall number 99, karate kick to throat, penalty to Boro" is clearer than just pointing to spot. Final point, for all his faults, I would rather he had a whinge that just let it slide or used the immortal " I couldn't see that from where I was", he doesn't always get it right but he gets it right enough that most of the lads that play in his teams don't give interviews years later saying "what a £$%^&!!!!" 

[Borodane 6,294]

2 hours ago, Old Codger said:

whilst not condoning NW's referee rants, most of the time he only has a pop when something blatant has happened and if I was a player, I think I would appreciate my boss saying, " yes, he should have been done for almost taking your eye out" more than "it is what it is".

I get the impression that it's a lot more than just the blatant situations. The thing is he keeps going throughout the match. You can hear it when there are no fans and you can see it. There comes a time when enough is enough and you get on with it. Alex Ferguson was alsoa master in constantly being in the ref and fourth officials ears to the point where Southgate finally told him to shut up. I hated it then and I still don't think it's a particularly classy trait to constantly feel hard done by. I certainly don't think it's helping and I wouldn't be surprised if it has a negative impact on the refs.

[Duvel 2,446]

I'm not saying that Warnock isn't entitled to have a moan after last week, we were hard done by and every manager would do the same after a game like that. The problem is when its happening virtually every week in post game press conferences the genuine complaints lose meaning. 

Warnock has a history of blaming refs to divert attention away from himself and his players but it just shows a total lack of respect for officials as well. I'm sure most of you saw the video of him hurling abuse at a referee in an academy game, its just totally unnecessary but he isn't the only manager doing it. 

Then you have managers (like Warnock last week) and pundits saying they've never played the game and the standard is terrible, well why don't some of the ex pros start reffing then? The answer is obvious, no one wants to do it.  

My point about junior refs might seem like a separate issue to the pro game but I think its related. Its become expected in the game that refs get every decision right 100% of the time and accepted that its ok to abuse refs throughout a game. What happens in the Premier league filters down to junior football at the grassroots level and that's where the future refs will come from. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Duvel

[Blanco 4,915]

17 minutes ago, Duvel said:

I'm not saying that Warnock isn't entitled to have a moan after last week, we were hard done by and every manager would do the same after a game like that. The problem is when its happening virtually every week in post game press conferences the genuine complaints lose meaning. 

Warnock has a history of blaming refs to divert attention away from himself and his players but it just shows a total lack of respect for officials as well. I'm sure most of you saw the video of him hurling abuse at a referee in an academy game, its just totally unnecessary but he isn't the only manager doing it. 

Then you have managers like Warnock saying they've never played the game and the standard is terrible, well why don't some of the ex pros start reffing then? The answer is obvious, no one wants to do it.  

My point about junior refs might seem like a separate issue to the pro game but I think its related. Its become expected in the game that refs get every decision right 100% of the time and accepted that its ok to abuse refs throughout a game. What happens in the Premier league filters down to junior football at the grassroots level and that's where the future refs will come from. 

I think it can come down to the attitude of the referee too though. Especially at junior level. We had a referee a few years back that always explained how he saw an incident and always apologised if he was perceived to have got it wrong. Along the lines of “that was our throw ref” “oh sorry I thought it came off your player last, apologies if I got it wrong but I’m standing by how I saw it”. He never got any abuse regardless of whether he was right or wrong because he always explained in a nice way how he saw it. 
Other referees have the opinion that they are Gods gift and can do no wrong. These are the ones that get most abuse in my opinion because of their sheer arrogance to a given situation. 
I think that a referee will be treated with respect if he handles a game in a clear and concise way regardless of whether he has got a decision correct or not.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

18 minutes ago, Blanco said:

I think it can come down to the attitude of the referee too though. Especially at junior level. We had a referee a few years back that always explained how he saw an incident and always apologised if he was perceived to have got it wrong. Along the lines of “that was our throw ref” “oh sorry I thought it came off your player last, apologies if I got it wrong but I’m standing by how I saw it”. He never got any abuse regardless of whether he was right or wrong because he always explained in a nice way how he saw it. 
Other referees have the opinion that they are Gods gift and can do no wrong. These are the ones that get most abuse in my opinion because of their sheer arrogance to a given situation. 
I think that a referee will be treated with respect if he handles a game in a clear and concise way regardless of whether he has got a decision correct or not.

Fair point but it’s impossible for us as fans to know what the referee is saying to the players on the pitch. 

[Blanco 4,915]

3 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Fair point but it’s impossible for us as fans to know what the referee is saying to the players on the pitch. 

Yes I agree billy my point was more to do with the referee at junior level as raised by Duvel earlier 

[Duvel 2,446]

31 minutes ago, Blanco said:

I think it can come down to the attitude of the referee too though. Especially at junior level. We had a referee a few years back that always explained how he saw an incident and always apologised if he was perceived to have got it wrong. Along the lines of “that was our throw ref” “oh sorry I thought it came off your player last, apologies if I got it wrong but I’m standing by how I saw it”. He never got any abuse regardless of whether he was right or wrong because he always explained in a nice way how he saw it. 
Other referees have the opinion that they are Gods gift and can do no wrong. These are the ones that get most abuse in my opinion because of their sheer arrogance to a given situation. 
I think that a referee will be treated with respect if he handles a game in a clear and concise way regardless of whether he has got a decision correct or not.

Yeah thats a good point and I've seen the arrogant refs you describe and they are always going to rub people up the wrong way. 

I don't think that's the cause of people disrespecting refs though, lads that I played with now have kids in junior football and they've told me the parents on the sidelines are terrible nowadays and it happens every week. 

The other point about refs coming out and explaining their mistakes i don't see the point. Last week for example if the ref does an interview after the game and says he thought Bolasie fouled their player before the Bola goal will it change anything? Wasn't it obvious why the ref made that decision? I think most decisions are obvious as why they were given even if in hindsight they turn out to be wrong. 

Also, does anyone demand that managers come out after a game and explain their team selections and tactics when they get it wrong? Do we demand that players come out and explain why they missed a chance or misplace a pass?

Why should refs explain anything, it makes no sense to me when decisions are made in good faith.  

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

5 minutes ago, Blanco said:

Yes I agree billy my point was more to do with the referee at junior level as raised by Duvel earlier 

I reffed at junior level a couple of times when my son used to play. He had a particularly vocal manager who ranted and grumbled at me all the way through the match. When the game was over the coach asked me if I was happy to ref next week, I told him in no uncertain terms that there was no way I was going to run up and down a field for 90 mins with him screaming at me. 

[Blanco 4,915]

Just now, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

I reffed at junior level a couple of times when my son used to play. He had a particularly vocal manager who ranted and grumbled at me all the way through the match. When the game was over the coach asked me if I was happy to ref next week, I told him in no uncertain terms that there was no way I was going to run up and down a field for 90 mins with him screaming at me. 

There’s no way that you would have got any decision wrong though 🤷‍♂️ @BillyWoofs_shinpad 😂😂😂

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

Just now, Blanco said:

There’s no way that you would have got any decision wrong though 🤷‍♂️ @BillyWoofs_shinpad 😂😂😂

I probably did, it’s not easy that refereeing lark, especially on a Saturday morning after a Friday night out!

[TeaCider24 12,616]

Ndombele booted in the shin by a Dinamo Zagreb player tonight, not even close to touching the ball, VAR didn't even deem it worthy of a check.

It doesn't improve anything, it just makes the mistakes even more frustrating as they're making them even after additional viewings.

[Neverbefore 10,933]

35 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Ndombele booted in the shin by a Dinamo Zagreb player tonight, not even close to touching the ball, VAR didn't even deem it worthy of a check.

It doesn't improve anything, it just makes the mistakes even more frustrating as they're making them even after additional viewings.

It also conjured up a hand ball in the Milan utd game to rob kessie of a beautiful goal. Didn't look like a hand touched it from any of the angles, and it wasn't given in first instance. So it's literally over ruled a perfectly good goal based on nothing. Joke.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

6 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

It also conjured up a hand ball in the Milan utd game to rob kessie of a beautiful goal. Didn't look like a hand touched it from any of the angles, and it wasn't given in first instance. So it's literally over ruled a perfectly good goal based on nothing. Joke.

Yes that was a bizarre decision. VAR is making matches worse not better. 
 

[BluebirdinExile 43]

We done the business on the cheats today, may they go into freefall.  🤣