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England World Cup Qualifiers


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41 minutes ago, Uwe said:

It would need to be a collaborative effort. If England abstained they would soon find someone else to fill the last 16 or at best 1/4 final spot. We would need the top 8 countries in the world to abstain too. If there was no England, Spain, France, Germany, Brazil , Belgium, Italy and Argentina abstained then FIFA may be forced to act 

I think if one Nation took a stand there would be a domino effect. Admittedly not initially from the bigger Nations but I doubt it would take much for most of the Scandinavian Countries to follow suit and no doubt a few other Countries would be immediately under pressure with some players finally realising what is happening in Qatar along with fans and politicians becoming involved.

All it takes is one strong FA with principles and morals. Failing that it is up to the players individually to refuse to play in the tournament however I doubt if players from Man City or PSG as just two examples could give a stuff. That's a tough decision for a Player to take in turning down a Cap but if taking the knee hasn't changed anything then maybe the timing and the opportunity is staring them (all creeds and colours) in the face, right here, right now.

Instead all we will get is more "inclusive" T-Shirts handed out during warm ups and tannoy messages reminding fans about their behaviour and £10,000 fines for the really naughty clubs all to deflect and cover the many faces of the FA, FIFA and UEFA.

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Talk about Whataboutery! Everybody in the world owns something that was made in China, the laptop, tablet or phone that you used to access this site or the TV that you watched the England game on will

I doubt if England, Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy etc. all boycotted the Competition nothing would happen but the truth is that while players are taking the knee thousands have died working in d

You are probably correct Dan. I have calmed down ever so slightly this morning. I am amusing myself with the thought that someone on here complained that England only won 5-0 the other night 😂

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2 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

It clearly would achieve something, so why pretend it wouldn't?

The Qatari World Cup would take a massive prestige hit if countries boycotted it because of their human rights abuses, the Qatari state would take a massive prestige hit and financial hit.

6,000+ migrant workers have died building the stadiums and infrastructure over there, that's not just bad luck.

It's daft to pretend that every country is the same and you can't say anything because no country's record is perfect. It's happening now, it shouldn't be ignored.

I think what Sanddancer meant is that even if the major nations boycotted the World Cup, nothing would be done to improve human rights or workers' health & safety, simply because exploitation is so ingrained in the culture over there.

If any official protest was lodged by our (or any other) government) they'd probably just tell us to get lost and that its none of our business how they run things in their country.

Losing the WC would be embarrassing...but the Qataris know its not going to happen because it would also be embarrassing to FIFA to admit they picked an unsuitable country. Plus all the time and money invested in hosting the tournament there.

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11 hours ago, Blanco said:

A bit harsh @TeaCider24 IMO. The man of the match for me was the San Marino goalkeeper with at least six really good saves. There were 4 or 5 wasted chances over the 90 minutes but credit to the goalkeeper for keeping the score down. 

Agreed. Some of our finishing was a bit of a concern, but their keeper had a great game.

SM also set up defensively, so we weren't just going to be able to breeze through them.

Southgate was also looking at some fringe players, some earning their first caps.

England were always going to win this game. Whether it was by 5, 6, 7 or more isn't really a big concern. It was practically a training session for us.

The biggest test we're going to face is Poland. I'll be more interested to see how play against them. We always flatter to deceive in qualifying anyhow, then look wretched against the good teams.

While I agree we will need to play a lot better in the tournament proper, I would actually prefer us to peak when it matters.

 

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Always think it must be so boring to follow these qualifiers for the top nations like England are at the moment (or at least have the potential to be, still not convinced Southgate is the man to get the most out of that squad). It tends to be like premier League Vs league 2 for 5 or 6 games and 2 against championship clubs. 9/10 you're qualifying so there's not really much on the line.

Albeit much more enjoyable than watching us crash out most years, though the rare times we do qualify are made all the better. 

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14 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

It clearly would achieve something, so why pretend it wouldn't?

The Qatari World Cup would take a massive prestige hit if countries boycotted it because of their human rights abuses, the Qatari state would take a massive prestige hit and financial hit.

6,000+ migrant workers have died building the stadiums and infrastructure over there, that's not just bad luck.

It's daft to pretend that every country is the same and you can't say anything because no country's record is perfect. It's happening now, it shouldn't be ignored.

It would raise questions of past and future venues and first you need to apply a measure of accountability to make judgment. Then bring to account past abuse based on today’s standards while setting target for future events. What would the target be, one death, less then one hundred but no greater then a thousand? Not so easy is it. 
Who do you hold to account the law makers, the event organizer, the contractor or the project manager or HR and HSE. Most of the companies, project managers, HR and HSE, if not the majority are of the same nationality of the people they employed. Ironic as it may seem but you would first need to change the culture of whole nations. 
I am not denying its wrong but highlighting the double standards of past and present decisions and complexity of who will pass judgment. 
Boycott it, you have the right not to partake as do millions more, but while people talk they will still support the event. 
let’s put it another way. Do you own any Chinese products, if you do you support abuse of human rights and decimation of natural resources. Do you use products with palm oil, plastic, then you support destruction of habitat.

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5 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

It would raise questions of past and future venues and first you need to apply a measure of accountability to make judgment. Then bring to account past abuse based on today’s standards while setting target for future events. What would the target be, one death, less then one hundred but no greater then a thousand? Not so easy is it. 
Who do you hold to account the law makers, the event organizer, the contractor or the project manager or HR and HSE. Most of the companies, project managers, HR and HSE, if not the majority are of the same nationality of the people they employed. Ironic as it may seem but you would first need to change the culture of whole nations. 
I am not denying its wrong but highlighting the double standards of past and present decisions and complexity of who will pass judgment. 
Boycott it, you have the right not to partake as do millions more, but while people talk they will still support the event. 
let’s put it another way. Do you own any Chinese products, if you do you support abuse of human rights and decimation of natural resources. Do you use products with palm oil, plastic, then you support destruction of habitat. 
Will you cast the first stone? 

 

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9 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

It would raise questions of past and future venues and first you need to apply a measure of accountability to make judgment. Then bring to account past abuse based on today’s standards while setting target for future events. What would the target be, one death, less then one hundred but no greater then a thousand? Not so easy is it. 


The report states 6,500 workers died since Qatar was awarded the World Cup, an average of 650 per year. A lot but how many die in construction accidents on average in a dangerous industry? Having worked in Asia I can vouch it’s fairly high due to genetics, stress, health, diet, climate conditions and abuse from managers of the same nationalities etc, etc. 

  
Who do you hold to account the law makers, the event organizer, the contractor or the project manager or HR and HSE. Most of the companies, project managers, HR and HSE, if not the majority are of the same nationality of the people they employed. Ironic as it may seem but you would first need to change the culture of whole nations. 


I am not denying its wrong but highlighting the double standards of past and present decisions and complexity of who will pass judgment. 
Boycott it, you have the right not to partake as do millions more, but while people talk they will still support the event. 


let’s put it another way. Do you own any Chinese products, if you do you support abuse of human rights and decimation of natural resources. Do you use products with palm oil, plastic, then you support destruction of habitat.

 

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14 hours ago, sanddancer said:

 

There are lots of moral reasons why we shouldn't do an awful lot of things. I hope that nobody buys Chinese products for the reason you mention plus the treatment of Hong Kong Chinese let alone the initial lies and denial of Covid. Maybe I shouldn't drive a German Car because my father fought against them in WWII and their treatment of Jews at the time. Then we have Erdogan's treatment of Women's rights only last week so I hope nobody will visit Turkey anytime soon. Then we have our own disastrous history in the Middle East resulting in destabilising the entire region and bringing with it terrorism into our own back yard. I remember back in the 70's an ageing Lecturer at Uni going apoplectic with a young female lecturer because she was about to buy a Datsun (she ended up buying a French car) over what they done to POW's and the war crimes they committed in China. As individuals we can't change anything but collectively we can change everything but it takes time. In the UK the use of plastic carrier bags has reduced greatly, Electric cars are on the increase, Green energy to generate power is increasing. Should we now stop all that because others in the street, country or world aren't doing it?

As individuals we can't fix everything in life let alone the world but we don't have to just sit quietly and do nothing, looking the other way. The English FA and all the other FA's, FIFA and UEFA knowingly have blood on their hands yet they have the temerity tell us to kick it out. They were and are complicit to what went on in Brazil and what is now going on in Qatar. We have players taking the knee while playing in the World Cup, its probably due to individual ignorance but their level of hypocrisy is appalling.

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1 hour ago, Redcar Rioja said:

There are lots of moral reasons why we shouldn't do an awful lot of things. I hope that nobody buys Chinese products for the reason you mention plus the treatment of Hong Kong Chinese let alone the initial lies and denial of Covid. Maybe I shouldn't drive a German Car because my father fought against them in WWII and their treatment of Jews at the time. Then we have Erdogan's treatment of Women's rights only last week so I hope nobody will visit Turkey anytime soon. Then we have our own disastrous history in the Middle East resulting in destabilising the entire region and bringing with it terrorism into our own back yard. I remember back in the 70's an ageing Lecturer at Uni going apoplectic with a young female lecturer because she was about to buy a Datsun (she ended up buying a French car) over what they done to POW's and the war crimes they committed in China. As individuals we can't change anything but collectively we can change everything but it takes time. In the UK the use of plastic carrier bags has reduced greatly, Electric cars are on the increase, Green energy to generate power is increasing. Should we now stop all that because others in the street, country or world aren't doing it?

As individuals we can't fix everything in life let alone the world but we don't have to just sit quietly and do nothing, looking the other way. The English FA and all the other FA's, FIFA and UEFA knowingly have blood on their hands yet they have the temerity tell us to kick it out. They were and are complicit to what went on in Brazil and what is now going on in Qatar. We have players taking the knee while playing in the World Cup, its probably due to individual ignorance but their level of hypocrisy is appalling.

So you prefer to pick the subjects that don’t infringe on your lifestyle? 

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17 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

So you prefer to pick the subjects that don’t infringe on your lifestyle? 

I don’t know how you came to that conclusion from RR’s post. (Unless I’m missing something 🤷‍♂️)

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2 hours ago, sanddancer said:

So you prefer to pick the subjects that don’t infringe on your lifestyle? 

Absolutely not, what a ridiculous unqualified assumption to make, the complete opposite being true. I literally have the scars from objecting to injustices in my lifetime. You seem to be of the view that we shouldn't bother and just be accepting of persecution and injustice because resistance is futile. In my work I have blocked several major contracts over workers being exploited in overseas factories/suppliers at great cost and inconvenience and in one particular case eventually being sacked (albeit cloaked by it being called "redundancy") for not keeping my mouth shut and backing down.

I'm objecting vehemently to the World Cup and the politics of Qatar and corruption in football. Whether it does or doesn't directly or indirectly affect me personally is irrelevant. 

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On 3/26/2021 at 9:50 AM, Neverbefore said:

Always think it must be so boring to follow these qualifiers for the top nations like England are at the moment (or at least have the potential to be, still not convinced Southgate is the man to get the most out of that squad). It tends to be like premier League Vs league 2 for 5 or 6 games and 2 against championship clubs. 9/10 you're qualifying so there's not really much on the line.

Albeit much more enjoyable than watching us crash out most years, though the rare times we do qualify are made all the better. 

It's only boring for the entitled, in my eyes, we've got absolutely no divine right to win.

Stephen Kenny's position must be under scrutiny now, no win in his first 10 games and Ireland have just been beaten by Luxembourg. Mick McCarthy looks like Guardiola now.

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Just now, TeaCider24 said:

It's only boring for the entitled, in my eyes, we've got absolutely no divine right to win.

Stephen Kenny's position must be under scrutiny now, no win in his first 10 games and Ireland have just been beaten by Luxembourg.

I just have to get in here. @Neverbefore how in the world can you now advocate that fannying about football is good? It’s a bloody embarrassment is what it is. We just lost at home to the 93rd ranked team in the world. Absolutely no way would your favourite nemesis of Pulis, Warnock, O’Neill or McCarthy would have lost this. It’s despicable. I await in anticipation of your defence of how this is good 🤷‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Blanco said:

I just have to get in here. @Neverbefore how in the world can you now advocate that fannying about football is good? It’s a bloody embarrassment is what it is. We just lost at home to the 93rd ranked team in the world. Absolutely no way would your favourite nemesis of Pulis, Warnock, O’Neill or McCarthy would have lost this. It’s despicable. I await in anticipation of your defence of how this is good 🤷‍♂️

I'm not sure it's the style of play that's issue for Ireland at the moment, Stephen Kenny appears to be hugely out of his depth.

At least Ireland have gone a step further than Norway and Germany (highlighting the Human rights abuses) and are actively boycotting the World Cup. 😂

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