Boro v Wycombe 0-3

[AnglianRed 3,872]

1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

I can see it now:

Well he certainly looks the part. Just depends on whether he has the brain to go with it.

 

[Old Codger 1,925]

Only reason I can think it was tried was that NW thought it might alter his "It's all about me" attitude and when it didn't there was no real alternative with Hall injured and none of the other senior lads being very vocal

[marvin 127]

4 minutes ago, Old Codger said:

Only reason I can think it was tried was that NW thought it might alter his "It's all about me" attitude and when it didn't there was no real alternative with Hall injured and none of the other senior lads being very vocal

I don’t think it was a risk worth taking though. Especially for a manager as experienced as Warnock who should’ve known better. Tavernier would’ve made a better captain, at least he always puts in a shift and gives his all.

[Changing Times 6,999]

29 minutes ago, marvin said:

I think making Britt captain was one of the key moments in ruining the season.

I think it was one of the least important things this club has done in it's entire history.

[marvin 127]

5 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I think it was one of the least important things this club has done in it's entire history.

Fair enough. What decision do you think specifically was where things started to go wrong?

[Changing Times 6,999]

Just now, marvin said:

Fair enough. What decision do you think specifically was where things started to go wrong?

Go wrong in what sense?  We did actually finish higher this season than last.  This season's 'issues' stem from decisions made long before this season began.  I suppose it just depends how far back you want to go. 

If you want specific things relating to this season then aside from the obvious appointment of Warnock, you'd have to begin with the transfer activity.  Akpom was entirely unsuited to what Warnock wants to do, Bettinelli made too many basic errors, I don't think Morsy and Fisher are any better than average at this level, and Morsy is no more than a hard worker either way, which we already had in midfield.  Hall has been ok but got injured, not much to be done about that of  course. Roberts was a complete waste of a signing.  Watmore has done pretty well but him aside I think you'd struggle to find much positive to say about the rest.  Even Bolasie has really been no more than ok at best, and has played his own part in some of our lacklustre performances.  Certain players being seemingly undroppable despite playing poorly for much of the season hasn't helped either.

[marvin 127]

12 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Go wrong in what sense?  We did actually finish higher this season than last.  This season's 'issues' stem from decisions made long before this season began.  I suppose it just depends how far back you want to go. 

If you want specific things relating to this season then aside from the obvious appointment of Warnock, you'd have to begin with the transfer activity.  Akpom was entirely unsuited to what Warnock wants to do, Bettinelli made too many basic errors, I don't think Morsy and Fisher are any better than average at this level, and Morsy is no more than a hard worker either way, which we already had in midfield.  Hall has been ok but got injured, not much to be done about that of  course. Roberts was a complete waste of a signing.  Watmore has done pretty well but him aside I think you'd struggle to find much positive to say about the rest.  Even Bolasie has really been no more than ok at best, and has played his own part in some of our lacklustre performances.  Certain players being seemingly undroppable despite playing poorly for much of the season hasn't helped either.

Ok, good, so I think we’re in agreement that this season there have been a catalogue of errors. I don’t think anyone could dispute that (apart from maybe Warnock and his team.)

Gone wrong in the sense that this season, as per since our relegation, playoffs should’ve been the minimum requirement.

Akpom I feel could’ve and should’ve been utilised better. I don’t think he’s that bad a player but I do think he’s had any confidence smashed out of him and not been played to his strengths, as is the Boro way with strikers. 

Betinelli is probably the worst signing of the season in terms of points lost due to his inadequacies. 

Morsy, I agree is no more than a hard worker in midfield. I’ve said previously that I don’t see what he brings to the team, and been shot down for saying so.

I do, however, think that despite that, we were in with a shot of the playoffs before the wheels finally came off the Captain Britt saga. It was then that there started to be talk of a clique and an atmosphere. We were done then. Our season was over and the final nails in the coffin were hammered home. 

[2plus2 226]

Today we were woeful, many games we were, but I'm still backing Warnock for next season.

So far he's steered us away from relegation and then improved us to finish 10th. We haven't got a war chest, so I don't think we need to worry about any manager blowing last chance saloon to buy our way back into the PL, that ship has long sailed. He values personality over pretty football, so in employing him you have to accept we'll never be free flowing. But you can't claim he doesn't have experience or success at this level.

It won't be pretty, it might not work, but it has the potential to. I'm happy to back him for another season.

Appreciate that it's highly likely I'm on my own here, and he does deserve criticism, but I think as a forum more discredit is being directed his way then he deserves.

[Changing Times 6,999]

14 minutes ago, marvin said:

I do, however, think that despite that, we were in with a shot of the playoffs before the wheels finally came off the Captain Britt saga. It was then that there started to be talk of a clique and an atmosphere. We were done then. Our season was over and the final nails in the coffin were hammered home. 

So we were in touch with the playoffs while Assombalonga was the captain, which sounds like a good thing to me, but you're saying it like it's a bad thing?

Sorry but the captaincy thing is nonsense, that's not meant to be disrespectful to you, it's just the kind of flannel that people come out with quite often. 

Friend was our captain last season.  Put a vote up here who is the best captain between Friend and Assombalonga and Friend would win by a landslide.  Last season we finished 17th, this season we finished 10th.  So is Assombalonga a better captain than Friend?  I think most people would say that of course he isn't, we finished higher this season because of various factors, probably starting with who the manager is and going from there.  Assombalonga being the captain definitely isn't why we were a better team this season, no way Jose.  And that would be entirely correct.  In the same way it is entirely correct to say that his captaincy had nothing to do with where we finished this season. 

When we were 6th/7th around the halfway point of the season did you think it was because of his captaincy?  If you didn't then why would us finishing 10th be any more to do with it now?  We got walloped today, and the 'clique', which let's face it, didn't really exist, wasn't a part of it.  

[Neverbefore 4,197]

I'm curious CT, do you think Keane's captaincy had nothing to do with the years of dominance that utd went through? Or Vieira at arsenal? Or even leadbitter here? Is it just a coincidence that teams tend to do well when they have a perceived strong captain?

[Jamie-H 1,056]

Season's been finished for weeks but if Warnock's as ruthless as we think he is then some of those players wont be here next season the lack of intensity in these past few months is inexcusable.

Massive summer ahead of us we have alot of work to do on what is probably going to be a shoestring budget.

[wilsoncgp 6,168]

I think a good captain can have an effect on a team. The only 2 really good captains I can think of us having in my time following us align well with how successful we were, Leadbitter and Southgate. It's not the be all and end all and when it comes to this season, I don't think it was relevant who got picked simply because I don't think any of the squad have showed that kind of leadership as such.

Wigan fans might argue the case for Morsy but all I've really seen of him this season is a more physical Besic and you certainly wouldn't have gave him the armband. He's a bit of a bully, not necessarily a bad thing but when it comes to silly challenges and bookings, he makes Adam Clayton look like a saint.

I just wouldn't agree giving Britt the captaincy is a defining factor for this season. Give it to anybody else in this squad and I think we finish in the exact same place we did.

[Changing Times 6,999]

6 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I'm curious CT, do you think Keane's captaincy had nothing to do with the years of dominance that utd went through? Or Vieira at arsenal? Or even leadbitter here? Is it just a coincidence that teams tend to do well when they have a perceived strong captain?

Manchester United won the title before Keane even signed for them, and he wasn't the captain for a few years after he joined, if I remember correctly.  It would have been Robson, Bruce or Ince.  Vieira wasn't the captain when Arsenal won their first trophies under Wenger either, the double team in 1997/98 had Tony Adams as captain I think.  I think that Man Utd and Arsenal's period of dominance had more to do with Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville, Keane, Sherringham, Yorke, Cole, Schmeichel etc and Adams, Keown, Dixon, Seaman, Viera, Petit, Anelka, Bergkamp, Henry, Pires etc.  Chelsea didn't take over because John Terry was a great captain, they took over for a few years because they spent half a billion quid on making their squad better than Man Utd and Arsenal's.  I don't even know who the Man City captain is right now but they don't seem to be missing Vincent Kompany's leadership.

Leadbitter was here during the 2012/13, 2013/14 seasons, when we had one of the worst periods of form in our history, and when we were struggling so much that we sacked Mowbray and appointed Karanka.  How come his leadership only worked when things went well for us?  That doesn't really make any sense, does it?  I think Leadbitter is the club captain up at Sunderland isn't he?  But they just bottled automatic promotion anyway, so do we blame his leadership or is it basically irrelevant?

'Great' captains always tend to belong to successful teams.  You don't seem to get many great captains who play for unsuccessful teams, even though leadership is a completely separate quality to footballing ability.  The reason for that is because it's the success of the team that makes the captain 'great', not the other way around, in my opinion.

[2plus2 226]

You need a team of captains. It's not all about assigning that accolade to one individual. I definitely think the position is overrated and only has a marginal impact.

[Old Codger 1,925]

I think any group of people needs a leader to coordinate them to a degree, otherwise we see aimless milling around and people trying to do their own thing...  it isn't the be all and end all, but we tend do do better with strong personalities in the team. On Wiki there is a list of Notable Players for the Boro and I think it could be said that we enjoyed our most successful spells in Riverside years under good captains beginning with Robson, Pearson and Ince. The best teams have two or three leaders/alphas and they mightn't be the best players but the right guy can make a difference