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22 minutes ago, Humpty said:

The problem I fear Grealish is going to face is clashing with Kane for space. Grealish plays in that hole that Kane likes to drop into. They stepped on each other’s toes a few times last night. Mount will start in that role against Croatia. I love Grealish by the way. Proper player.

Be interesting to see how he holds up in his career fitness wise, the guy gets clattered far more than anyone else I can remember seeing recently.

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Ouch ūü§£

When you see something like that it makes you think about stuff and I think its an appropriate time to also say how positive this forum is for myself and my mental health and mood.  It’s a great place

The problem with the gesture itself (in my opinion) is that there are no concrete goals. 'End racism' is a noble idea, but how do we know when that's been achieved? Can it be achieved? I wonder i

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46 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Be interesting to see how he holds up in his career fitness wise, the guy gets clattered far more than anyone else I can remember seeing recently.

Like B. Laudrup .. His career ended too early for the same reason

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1 hour ago, Brunners said:

Be interesting to see how he holds up in his career fitness wise, the guy gets clattered far more than anyone else I can remember seeing recently.

Does my absolute head in when people cry about him being a 'diver' or 'soft'. Literally if he didn't go down he would be injured every few months because of how much he gets fouled and clattered.

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Grealish has turned being fouled into an absolute art, he draws fouls for fun no matter the level of competition

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2 hours ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

The fact some people can't make that distinction, despite most clubs saying the reason they are doing it is purely to promote an anti-rasicm message and not an endorsement of the BLM movement, is pretty laughable at this stage.

Taking a knee was a BLM thing though so it will always be associated with that.  Maybe the clubs should think about doing something different, that isn't associated with it?  In any case it's meaningless anyway, isn't achieving anything, and almost certainly won't achieve anything, which is why you've had teams choosing not to do it.  It's a gesture that's essentially become routine for a lot of people now so you need to then move on from it.

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29 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Taking a knee was a BLM thing though so it will always be associated with that.  Maybe the clubs should think about doing something different, that isn't associated with it?  In any case it's meaningless anyway, isn't achieving anything, and almost certainly won't achieve anything, which is why you've had teams choosing not to do it.  It's a gesture that's essentially become routine for a lot of people now so you need to then move on from it.

It never was a BLM thing to start with, Colin Kapernick (independently) started to take the knee during anthems in the NFL as a protest. Since then football and wider society has used it as a gesture for anti-rascism. I'm happy for clubs to not take the knee on the premise they are actively engaging in things to help raise awareness of the issue (Like Boro did). But equally don't have an issue with clubs taking the knee and also engaging in other initiatives.

I just don't understand the need to boo people engaging in that gesture and find the act of booing that quite funny.

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3 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

It never was a BLM thing to start with, Colin Kapernick (independently) started to take the knee during anthems in the NFL as a protest. Since then football and wider society has used it as a gesture for anti-rascism. I'm happy for clubs to not take the knee on the premise they are actively engaging in things to help raise awareness of the issue (Like Boro did). But equally don't have an issue with clubs taking the knee and also engaging in other initiatives.

I just don't understand the need to boo people engaging in that gesture and find the act of booing that quite funny.

Sorry, yeah I know who started it, and when, because I'm an NFL fan, but BLM co-opted it let's say that, and that's when it became a more widespread gesture.  Specifically after the death of George Floyd if you want to be accurate about it.  Nobody was doing it here before then were they?  A lot of people in this country, and lots of other countries, wouldn't have even heard of Colin Kaepernick, so would have no idea about it's origins.  So taking the knee = BLM as far as most are concerned.  Booing anything is ridiculous in my view, it's something for children to do at pantomimes but that's about it.

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8 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Sorry, yeah I know who started it, and when, because I'm an NFL fan, but BLM co-opted it let's say that, and that's when it became a more widespread gesture.  Specifically after the death of George Floyd if you want to be accurate about it.  Nobody was doing it here before then were they?  A lot of people in this country, and lots of other countries, wouldn't have even heard of Colin Kaepernick, so would have no idea about it's origins.  So taking the knee = BLM as far as most are concerned.  Booing anything is ridiculous in my view, it's something for children to do at pantomimes but that's about it.

"As far as most are concerned"

Do you think those fans booing believe that those on the pitch are taking the knee for any reason other than to show support against racism? Do you think they believe the players are showing support to a political cause beyond that? That they're all Marxists or some rubbish? Because if they do, they're idiots. If they don't then they're something much more sinister. 

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5 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Specifically after the death of George Floyd if you want to be accurate about it. 

Taking the knee after Floyd's death kind of highlighted Kapernick's protest, as you'll be aware the protest was to shine a light on the exact type of circumstances Floyd was killed.

7 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

So taking the knee = BLM as far as most are concerned.

That's the main problem really isn't it, there's an emphasis on what a minority group are doing rather than looking at the roots of the gesture. I'm sure if those people were aware of the roots and focused less on BLM they'd be more on board with it.

The fact most club's that still take then knee have specifically come out to distance the gesture and instead are doing it for an anti-racism message seems to have still been lost on people.

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7 hours ago, Humpty said:

It was ultimately a training game. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Are all poor, boring games are called training games. I thought training is what you did in, well training before actually playing a game against opponents? 

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35 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

It never was a BLM thing to start with, Colin Kapernick (independently) started to take the knee during anthems in the NFL as a protest. Since then football and wider society has used it as a gesture for anti-rascism. I'm happy for clubs to not take the knee on the premise they are actively engaging in things to help raise awareness of the issue (Like Boro did). But equally don't have an issue with clubs taking the knee and also engaging in other initiatives.

I just don't understand the need to boo people engaging in that gesture and find the act of booing that quite funny.

Booing is gesture as is clapping, whistling etc. It’s a gesture of disapproval which in this country of free speech, they are entitled. I don’t think it funny but a cause of concern that the way a message is conveyed is actually dividing individuals. 

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Just now, sanddancer said:

Booing is gesture as is clapping, whistling etc. It’s a gesture of disapproval which in this country of free speech, they are entitled. I don’t think it funny but a cause of concern that the way a message is conveyed is actually dividing individuals. 

That's fair enough and people should be allowed to have their free speech protected.

But by booing what are they disapproving? The gesture itself, the message of anti-racism, or another thing? As @Neverbeforesummed up earlier.

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7 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

That's fair enough and people should be allowed to have their free speech protected.

But by booing what are they disapproving? The gesture itself, the message of anti-racism, or another thing? As @Neverbeforesummed up earlier.

Probably the extreme left wing group that promotes violence/looting/defund the police and all that jazz. 

I can't remember booing when kick it out do anti racism gestures. In fact did they not that earlier on along with linking arms or something that was roundly cheered? But naa, easier to call everyone racists I guess.

 

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