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1 hour ago, Neverbefore said:

"As far as most are concerned"

Do you think those fans booing believe that those on the pitch are taking the knee for any reason other than to show support against racism? Do you think they believe the players are showing support to a political cause beyond that? That they're all Marxists or some rubbish? Because if they do, they're idiots. If they don't then they're something much more sinister. 

This is the crux of it for me, hit the nail on the head. It's incredibly disappointing that we apparently have to allow for the idea that maybe they're all just idiots and that's somehow okay. Personally, I think people have far too much faith in the rest of humanity to think anybody who boos footballers taking the knee are just idiots and nothing more sinister than that but I'll leave it at that.

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Ouch 🤣

When you see something like that it makes you think about stuff and I think its an appropriate time to also say how positive this forum is for myself and my mental health and mood.  It’s a great place

The problem with the gesture itself (in my opinion) is that there are no concrete goals. 'End racism' is a noble idea, but how do we know when that's been achieved? Can it be achieved? I wonder i

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48 minutes ago, Dan1234 said:

Probably the extreme left wing group that promotes violence/looting/defund the police and all that jazz. 

I can't remember booing when kick it out do anti racism gestures. In fact did they not that earlier on along with linking arms or something that was roundly cheered? But naa, easier to call everyone racists I guess.

 

Well said Dan, unfortunately footballers cannot see that they are supporting a divisive American radical gesture, as anyone who has lived in the States will confirm. Let them do it if they want to, but don’t complain or try to cancel those who don’t agree 

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3 minutes ago, pikerman said:

Well said Dan, unfortunately footballers cannot see that they are supporting a divisive American radical gesture, as anyone who has lived in the States will confirm. Let them do it if they want to, but don’t complain or try to cancel those who don’t agree 

They're simply not supporting it. Theyre supporting the idea of racial equality. If you want to defend people who boo that gesture then I refer you to my earlier racist or idiot comment. 

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1 hour ago, Neverbefore said:

"As far as most are concerned"

Do you think those fans booing believe that those on the pitch are taking the knee for any reason other than to show support against racism? Do you think they believe the players are showing support to a political cause beyond that? That they're all Marxists or some rubbish? Because if they do, they're idiots. If they don't then they're something much more sinister. 

I have no idea what the fans booed it for.  I dare say that there will be more than one reason for it, as it's happening all over the country at games everywhere, and each individual would have their own reason for it.  Personally I think it's stupid but stupidity isn't a crime I suppose so whatever.  I do think though that football could change what it's doing and remove this as an issue, or at the very least, make it absolutely clear why some people have issues with it.  In any case, it's losing it's effectiveness as it's become routine now in my opinion.  That's why some clubs stopped doing it.

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Just now, Changing Times said:

I have no idea what the fans booed it for.  I dare say that there will be more than one reason for it, as it's happening all over the country at games everywhere, and each individual would have their own reason for it.  Personally I think it's stupid but stupidity isn't a crime I suppose so whatever.  I do think though that football could change what it's doing and remove this as an issue, or at the very least, make it absolutely clear why some people have issues with it.  In any case, it's losing it's effectiveness as it's become routine now in my opinion.  That's why some clubs stopped doing it.

Yeah can't argue with any of that. Especially the stupid bit. If you think that it's not doing anything to improve things that's one thing, but going out of your way to voice your displeasure at what's at its core good intentioned is another thing. 

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7 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

They're simply not supporting it. Theyre supporting the idea of racial equality. If you want to defend people who boo that gesture then I refer you to my earlier racist or idiot comment. 

Yes I see, I disagree with your viewpoint and I am an idiot, that is a fairly typical response by supporters of this kind of gesture politics, closely followed no doubt by claims that I am racist. 

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1 minute ago, pikerman said:

Yes I see, I disagree with your viewpoint and I am an idiot, that is a fairly typical response by supporters of this kind of gesture politics, closely followed no doubt by claims that I am racist. 

Your comprehension skills are top notch at least

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, pikerman said:

Yes I see, I disagree with your viewpoint and I am an idiot, that is a fairly typical response by supporters of this kind of gesture politics, closely followed no doubt by claims that I am racist. 

its not a viewpoint though, is it?

it's a matter of fact, proven by direct statements by individuals, clubs, and the media. 

it's almost hilariious that people with your viewpoint, are tryng to enforce yours on the people taking the action.

It;s like telling a right handed person that you know their left handed!

 

or maybe you're a Newcastle Fan, because you take the time to post on a Boro forum..... 

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9 minutes ago, pikerman said:

Yes I see, I disagree with your viewpoint and I am an idiot, that is a fairly typical response by supporters of this kind of gesture politics, closely followed no doubt by claims that I am racist. 

Yea, it's interesting that the insults are flying out from those that support it. It seems to be very common. Best let them just get on with it. 

 

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1 hour ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Taking the knee after Floyd's death kind of highlighted Kapernick's protest, as you'll be aware the protest was to shine a light on the exact type of circumstances Floyd was killed.

That's the main problem really isn't it, there's an emphasis on what a minority group are doing rather than looking at the roots of the gesture. I'm sure if those people were aware of the roots and focused less on BLM they'd be more on board with it.

The fact most club's that still take then knee have specifically come out to distance the gesture and instead are doing it for an anti-racism message seems to have still been lost on people.

His protest was about the oppression of black people in the United States.  He didn't kneel to begin with, he sat, specifically during the national anthem before games.  A Seahawks player called Nate Boyer, who is/was also in the US Army, suggested that rather than sitting for the anthem, which a lot of people found disrespectful, he should kneel instead, and he started doing that.  A few other players joined in gradually but not many at first.  I think the shootings of a black person by the police got more people involved within the NFL but even that only lasted for a short time really.  It must have been the season before last when the games were last played in the UK if my memory serves me correctly.

The roots of the players here doing this now is BLM and the death of George Floyd.  Nobody here would have been kneeling now were it not for those two things.  I'm sure you must understand that on some level unless you think that one guy kneeling during American Football games would have lead to all of this in the UK and around the world?  He started doing it like 5 years ago and no bugger was bothered over here.  So you'll find it very difficult to separate the gesture from BLM, in the same way that the Swastika is now associated with the Nazis, when it's been around for a couple of thousand years and was actually a positive symbol for luck I think.  Once something is associated with something else, it's difficult to see past that, or it is for some people.

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1 hour ago, Neverbefore said:

So do you think the players are taking a knee because they support the BLM organisation?

They are taking the knee because they are being told to in a lot of cases I expect.  That's not to say that they don't support anti-racism.  But I bet a lot are simply doing it because lots of other people are.

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Unfortunately Racism isn't so black and white as is being portrayed on here (no pun intended). It is a very complex and multi faceted issue. There are many who booed who wouldn't have a clue what Marxism is just as there are left wing and right wingers who will have booed or clapped like as not in equal measure. Discrimination against people because of their age or sex or wealth status is appalling but rife not just in this country but right across the Globe. Discrimination because of someone's religious beliefs has been the cause of wars since time immemorial and still is today. Discrimination because of someones skin colour is equally obnoxious and has no place in society but nor do all the other forms of discrimination.

Poorly educated and from a socially depressed area isn't a crime but it should be. The deprivation that exists in this area is amongst the worst in the country, even the Teesside vernacular has a negative effect in job interviews (also the same with Scousers, Geordies, Glaswegians and Cockneys etc.). Paddy's, Jocks and Taff's all fall under the same category. We have seen a generation that ended the concentration camps and the deaths of millions of Jews being labelled as racist and worse because they voted in favour of Brexit. 

Divide and conquer has been the modus operandi of people who revel in hate and worse. Unfortunately extremism tends to do that as it fits with whatever agenda they are pedalling. As soon as you pick a side bias sets in, its human nature and views then become more entrenched as we become defensive and even more sensitive in our viewpoints. Causes being hijacked or politicised is nothing new they always have and they always will. Sport is a convenient vehicle whether its the 1936 Berlin Olympics, 1968 Black Power Olympics, 1972 Munich Massacre or the awarding of Football Tournaments in Countries using Slavery today that the very people protesting now are happy to play in. Mankind needs to realise that inclusion, unity and human decency for all regardless of creed, colour and background should be the common goal. Highlighting and championing causes will always exclude by its very nature and that creates divisions and thus sides will be drawn along with indignance, shock and disgust and in doing so polarising opinions, rinse and repeat.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

It's very clearly racism. There is no other explanation. 

 

England fans have a history of xenophobia. I think we all know there's there's a 'below the surface' element of racism there as well. It doesn't take a massive jump to get from one to the other.

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54 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Who comes into the 26 now Trent is out?

We don't have any other fullbacks from the 7 that got cut. I can't see him taking Godfrey or White (Cue one of them getting called up), purely because they are more central minded players (and we have 4 of those already). 

Is Lingard first reserve so to speak?

Southgate will probably call up Justin Hoyte 😟

I assume it will be someone in another position cos we have more than enough right backs as it is.  I think he bottled that decision a little bit to be honest.

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