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Ouch 🤣

When you see something like that it makes you think about stuff and I think its an appropriate time to also say how positive this forum is for myself and my mental health and mood.  It’s a great place

The problem with the gesture itself (in my opinion) is that there are no concrete goals. 'End racism' is a noble idea, but how do we know when that's been achieved? Can it be achieved? I wonder i

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14 minutes ago, Mr_Maz said:

its not a viewpoint though, is it?

it's a matter of fact, proven by direct statements by individuals, clubs, and the media. 

it's almost hilariious that people with your viewpoint, are tryng to enforce yours on the people taking the action.

It;s like telling a right handed person that you know their left handed!

 

or maybe you're a Newcastle Fan, because you take the time to post on a Boro forum..... 

I am not trying to force my viewpoint on anyone, if individuals wish to kneel down before a football match, it is entirely up to them,but you cannot have it all ways. If people disagree with that stance then you have to respect that their views are different to yours and not start the usual name calling. Oh and by the way I played for Middlesbrough youth teams for five years, so red and white through and through 

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Just now, Changing Times said:

Southgate will probably call up Justin Hoyte 😟

I assume it will be someone in another position cos we have more than enough right backs as it is.  I think he bottled that decision a little bit to be honest.

Oh No GIF

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11 minutes ago, Dan1234 said:

Yea, it's interesting that the insults are flying out from those that support it. It seems to be very common. Best let them just get on with it. 

 

Very disappointing to see insults being used, and me not either on the end of them or being responsible for them 👎

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6 minutes ago, pikerman said:

I am not trying to force my viewpoint on anyone, if individuals wish to kneel down before a football match, it is entirely up to them,but you cannot have it all ways. If people disagree with that stance then you have to respect that their views are different to yours and not start the usual name calling. Oh and by the way I played for Middlesbrough youth teams for five years, so red and white through and through 

by disagreeng against a statement of fact, you are trying to enforce a lie. That's as bad, and stupid as it gets.

you say you played for Boro, and are red and white through and through, but by using your logic - I beleive your a marxist geordie

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11 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

His protest was about the oppression of black people in the United States. 

I thought his protest was that and specifically the police brutality aspect too. I suppose oppression of black people would encompass police brutality anyway. 

 

13 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

The roots of the players here doing this now is BLM and the death of George Floyd.

Again I think there is a distinction to be made for the political wing of BLM and the death of Floyd being a catalyst in promoting the Black Lives Matter movement which to many is campaigning for racial equality separate from supporting the BLM organisation. If that makes sense? 

 

16 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

So you'll find it very difficult to separate the gesture from BLM,

I think that's the crux of the issue. Looking at what football is trying to promote with the gesture it is separate. But as you say once people latch onto a link it's very hard to break that link. 

For example if BLM used a gesture of putting red rubber gloves over their heads and then football did the same but said it was for a different meaning (not an endorsement). I'd probably be a bit sceptical as it is a very distinctive and unique gesture. 

But in all honesty you'll probably be able to find lots of examples through history of different groups with different messages using a kneeling gesture. So I find it hard that people cannot make that distinction. If you catch my drift.

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4 minutes ago, Mr_Maz said:

have you noticed, he hasn't answered....

I'm not really sure what you want him to say to be honest?  Some BLM supporters want to defund the police.  I think this was more over in the USA than here, but it would be silly to act like it was just one person or something along those lines.  Whether people's, and football fan's in particular, sudden affection for the police is genuine or not is certainly up for some debate though 🙂

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Just now, Changing Times said:

I'm not really sure what you want him to say to be honest?  Some BLM supporters want to defund the police.  I think this was more over in the USA than here, but it would be silly to act like it was just one person or something along those lines.  Whether people's, and football fan's in particular, sudden affection for the police is genuine or not is certainly up for some debate though 🙂

i would like him to explain what he understands the term to mean. ideally both in the US and UK.

maybe he's googling it.

 

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Just now, Mr_Maz said:

i would like him to explain what he understands the term to mean. ideally both in the US and UK.

maybe he's googling it.

 

The problem with the slogan is it is often misunderstood. But also a slogan saying "Re-route typical Police funding into social projects; like youth services, early intervention programs, drug and substance abuse services...etc" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

But as with anything you'll get the extremists that want the exact definition of it.

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2 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

I thought his protest was that and specifically the police brutality aspect too. I suppose oppression of black people would encompass police brutality anyway. 

Again I think there is a distinction to be made for the political wing of BLM and the death of Floyd being a catalyst in promoting the Black Lives Matter movement which to many is campaigning for racial equality separate from supporting the BLM organisation. If that makes sense? 

I think that's the crux of the issue. Looking at what football is trying to promote with the gesture it is separate. But as you say once people latch onto a link it's very hard to break that link. 

For example if BLM used a gesture of putting red rubber gloves over their heads and then football did the same but said it was for a different meaning (not an endorsement). I'd probably be a bit sceptical as it is a very distinctive and unique gesture. 

But in all honesty you'll probably be able to find lots of examples through history of different groups with different messages using a kneeling gesture. So I find it hard that people cannot make that distinction. If you catch my drift.

I think it was general oppression he was protesting but it was sparked by some instances of police brutality that had happened and he felt enough was enough.  I knew about it because I'm a fan of the NFL but most people aren't, and for most people, it's all come on the back of George Floyd really and BLM.

I don't think you can make a distinction between the political wing and the protest or rather I think some people won't make that distinction because for a lot of people it is all wrapped up in the same thing, which is fair enough when you think about it.  That's why I think football using a different gesture or even forgetting gestures, and trying to move it on would be a better idea.

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2 minutes ago, Mr_Maz said:

i would like him to explain what he understands the term to mean. ideally both in the US and UK.

maybe he's googling it.

 

Most don't really understand it, especially those so strongly against it. 

Same goes for everything the political movement stands for. People continuously use it as their reasoning to justify being against kneeling, painting them to be anarcaic and anti establishment. Well, yes. They are. But how many civil rights movements do you know succeeded without those elements? I support their cause, and while I don't necessarily agree with all of their stances, I can understand them.  

The problem is that people who have privilege don't want to lose it, and will try to hide that anyway they can by painting a negative picture of the people who want equality. It happened in America with the original civil rights movement, it happened in the north of Ireland less then 50 years ago and it's happening here now. 

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