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[Neverbefore 10,940]

There's a huge difference between a rivalry between Sunderland, Newcastle and Boro then there is between the complicated social and political tensions that exist between these nations. 

[Changing Times 12,344]

3 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

There's a huge difference between a rivalry between Sunderland, Newcastle and Boro then there is between the complicated social and political tensions that exist between these nations. 

Of course there is because there are still lots of people like yourself who are going to ensure it.  We're talking about football matches here, if you, or other people, want to turn it into something else, then that's down to you.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

1 minute ago, Neverbefore said:

There's a huge difference between a rivalry between Sunderland, Newcastle and Boro then there is between the complicated social and political tensions that exist between these nations. 

Aye, I tried to allude to that mate. It's not like we need to venture far into history to find those tensions either, they've been pretty prominent in the last 5 years in particular with Scotland and Northern Ireland.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

1 hour ago, TeaCider24 said:

I don't for a second believe it's just because of the media coverage.

The vast majority of the people in the UK are English, it might be irritating but it makes sense that 55 million people get a lot more coverage than the 1.8 million people in Northern Ireland.

Even then, the bitterness was around long before social media, the Internet or 24 hour news, and Scotland in particular has a far more separate media.

Turning the other cheek to people wanting you to lose doesn't achieve anything.

I'd rooted for all the home nations for years, celebrated Wales getting to the tournaments and getting out the group. The Welsh team then release a video of themselves celebrating England getting knocked out by Iceland.

I celebrated David Marshall saving the decisive penalty to qualify for a tournament for the first time in 23 years, there are then videos going around of Scotland fans chanting "Clap if you hate the English" before their match against us.

No Scottish person is rooting against England because I personally want England to win.

The pandemic has made me more bitter than I normally would be, but I'm not really in the mood for acting meek if England do well right now.

 

Honestly I think this in most cases, this all boils down to over-reactions to small groups of people acting like numpties.

I think the mature and sensible thing to do is simply rise above the petty antics of other Home Nations fans and ignore them.

Worth bearing in mind they don't represent the entire country. Its usually the noisy minority, deliberately trying to provoke us and get a reaction.

The Scots have probably got worse recently with the SNP getting them worked up about IndyRef 2 and how mean the nasty, bullying English are for not letting them have one.

In the unlikely event of England actually winning a trophy I certainly wouldn't refrain from celebrating...but on the other hand, you won't find me posting videos on social media, gloating about it.

 

[TeaCider24 12,639]

29 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Honestly I think this in most cases, this all boils down to over-reactions to small groups of people acting like numpties.

I think the mature and sensible thing to do is simply rise above the petty antics of other Home Nations fans and ignore them.

Worth bearing in mind they don't represent the entire country. Its usually the noisy minority, deliberately trying to provoke us and get a reaction.

The Scots have probably got worse recently with the SNP getting them worked up about IndyRef 2 and how mean the nasty, bullying English are for not letting them have one.

In the unlikely event of England actually winning a trophy I certainly wouldn't refrain from celebrating...but on the other hand, you won't find me posting videos on social media, gloating about it.

I do take your overall point, but I know plenty of otherwise lovely Scottish people in my town that get very snide when it comes to the England football team.

It's very widespread.

I wouldn't be posting any gloating comments anyway, my family are Scottish and I find the attitude from our side in the other direction just as distasteful.

Though I'm sadly engaging in more of it than I like right now.

I've just got a much shorter fuse right now with what's going in in the world, and I've bitten more than I usually would.

Edited June 26, 2021 by TeaCider24

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

18 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

The Scots have probably got worse recently with the SNP getting them worked up about IndyRef 2 and how mean the nasty, bullying English are for not letting them have one.

I can understand their frustration on that though, I think it's mad just to blame the SNP for that. Bear in mind what has happened since the first independence referendum, that was 2 years before the Brexit vote which the Scottish people on their own didn't vote in favour of. They were the only nation within the UK to collectively give a pretty strong, convincing answer to the question of being EU members, considerably in favour of Remain. And yet as a nation within the UK, they were hindered and effectively meaningless against the population of England.

The SNP will of course use that to their advantage and try to stoke the fires for another referendum on Scottish independence, they've never been shy about that and people in Scotland still give them half the seats in Holyrood. The first Indyref wasn't split by much more than the overall UK Brexit vote was. But if Scotland wants to re-join the EU then it has to be independent from the rest of us and the polls I've seen suggest if applying for EU membership was a long-term promise made by the pro-Independence lot, the swing from No to Yes in the question of "Should Scotland be an independent country?" would be considerable enough.

Given all factors, I think it is quite easy to see why it's very easy to sell the message that it is the English holding Scotland back from doing what it actually wants to do.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

Yup - plenty of English numpties as well. 

I think its just typical "terrace humour" magnified to international level. Which doesn't paint any country in a particularly good light when its needlessly antagonistic.

 

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

Yeah I can understand why the English media rub people up the wrong way, I can't stand the Sun, Mirror etc myself and I'm sure many Englishmen feel the same... their awful 'banter' is cringey as hell and just gives other nations a massive stick to beat us with. 

Still, for me some home nations fans take it way beyond banter and rivalry e.g. Uwe's anectode. At that point it's just a little hateful. And surely we can all agree it's pathetic for a team of professional athletes (Wales) to be celebrating another team going out on video. No English players will be dancing on the training ground if Wales lose today - they'll be focussing on themselves.

I guess we just don't have the same animosity towards the other nations as they have towards us... so it's weird as a normal football fan when it's directed the other way. Suppose it's like England seeing Germany as a massive grudge match when the Germans don't at all and see Netherlands and Italy as their rivals.

Don Draper said it best when confronted by an angry junior employee: "I don't think about you at all."

[AnglianRed 6,320]

56 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I can understand their frustration on that though, I think it's mad just to blame the SNP for that. Bear in mind what has happened since the first independence referendum, that was 2 years before the Brexit vote which the Scottish people on their own didn't vote in favour of. They were the only nation within the UK to collectively give a pretty strong, convincing answer to the question of being EU members, considerably in favour of Remain. And yet as a nation within the UK, they were hindered and effectively meaningless against the population of England.

The SNP will of course use that to their advantage and try to stoke the fires for another referendum on Scottish independence, they've never been shy about that and people in Scotland still give them half the seats in Holyrood. The first Indyref wasn't split by much more than the overall UK Brexit vote was. But if Scotland wants to re-join the EU then it has to be independent from the rest of us and the polls I've seen suggest if applying for EU membership was a long-term promise made by the pro-Independence lot, the swing from No to Yes in the question of "Should Scotland be an independent country?" would be considerable enough.

Given all factors, I think it is quite easy to see why it's very easy to sell the message that it is the English holding Scotland back from doing what it actually wants to do.

I wasn't saying its entirely the fault of the SNP, but the fact they've been banging on about independence relentlessly for the last couple of years, going on about how badly Scotland is treated and the "tyranny" of Westminster (hypocritical considering their MPs sit there), will have definitely colour a lot of Scots' perceptions about England...not positively either.

 

[TeaCider24 12,639]

I will say I don't agree with the BBC showing an interview with Bakayo Saka at half tme during a Welsh game.

That's just daft.

[Uwe 3,545]

21 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

I will say I don't agree with the BBC showing an interview with Bakayo Saka at half tme during a Welsh game.

That's just daft.

I agree. They’ve blown a perfect opportunity to play the highlights of the 1966 World Cup final😉

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

14 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

I wasn't saying its entirely the fault of the SNP, but the fact they've been banging on about independence relentlessly for the last couple of years, going on about how badly Scotland is treated and the "tyranny" of Westminster (hypocritical considering their MPs sit there), will have definitely colour a lot of Scots' perceptions about England...not positively either.

I don't really know what else you'd expect them to do given their situation and what they want, being realistic they can't refuse to sit in Westminster can they? The face of Euroscepticism Nigel Farage thought the same of the EU but he still sat as an MEP for 21 years. And if we are to respect the will of the people, we should accept that the reason the SNP has such a strong hold over Scotland is because their views are reflective of the people of Scotland, not just driving them.

[Neverbefore 10,940]

1 minute ago, wilsoncgp said:

I don't really know what else you'd expect them to do given their situation and what they want, being realistic they can't refuse to sit in Westminster can they? The face of Euroscepticism Nigel Farage thought the same of the EU but he still sat as an MEP for 21 years. And if we are to respect the will of the people, we should accept that the reason the SNP has such a strong hold over Scotland is because their views are reflective of the people of Scotland, not just driving them.

They could, sinn Fein have never taken their seats, but they run on a manifest that says they won't. SNP can't just pull out if they feel like it. 

[Erimus 63 481]

9 hours ago, Neverbefore said:

Mate try living in a country where 99.9% of the media coverage is focused on another country and try not to be a little pleased when that country doesn't live up to the constant hype and arrogance. This isn't unprovoked. 

It's your choice to live wherever you want, you know what to do if you're unhappy there. You should be happy that Jacky Charlton turned the Republic into a decent team, but no you still use every opportunity to have a go at the English. Quite frankly, you as a Mod should act more responsibly and stop stirring the pot.

[Neverbefore 10,940]

6 minutes ago, Erimus 63 said:

It's your choice to live wherever you want, you know what to do if you're unhappy there. You should be happy that Jacky Charlton turned the Republic into a decent team, but no you still use every opportunity to have a go at the English. Quite frankly, you as a Mod should act more responsibly and stop stirring the pot.

You lost all credibility instantly. What a horrible attitude.