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54 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I think all that's been said here is about being supportive or being against nations and that becomes part of sport too. It's not saying me or you are *** but saying there is historical reference to a generalised distaste/hatred.

It does feel like a lot of the chatter around this has just been ultra-defensive of why others should even view England in such a negative way when we have no right to tell others what their experiences are of growing up in their nation and their respective experiences of us. We aren't in their shoes and maybe if we were, we'd feel similar.

In a similar way way nobody can take away @Uwe or @RiseAgainst's experiences of Scotland, or @BearSmog's experiences of Wales and how that may or may not effect their position on those respective nations.

I haven't read all the chat about why we are defensive to be honest so sorry NB4 if I've missed the point. 

I just thought I'd look on the forum to see what people are saying about the match and saw someone post a picture of a bonfire in Ireland as one of the examples of why people don't like the English. 

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't imagine any English people were responsible for burning the tricolour in Belfast/Derry or wherever that is. 

I know 'our' history and that's why some of the Irish don't like us but I get defensive when its aimed at people of my generation. If anyone else wants to make the point of why we are disliked then carry on. Maybe post some pictures of dead bodies after bloody Sunday or Bobby Sands where he's starving to death. 

I'll go elsewhere for the football chat. 

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Heading away with the good lady wife so won’t be back on before the final. Sincerest best wishes to the ordinary English fans on here. Hope it happens for you 💪

Every England fan last night  (Caution industrial language)    IMG_1425.MP4

Few excellent posts regarding the final and the tournament as a whole. On the pitch Southgate got basically every decision he made spot on leading upto the final. Even the decision to go to a win

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25 minutes ago, Duvel said:

I haven't read all the chat about why we are defensive to be honest so sorry NB4 if I've missed the point. 

I just thought I'd look on the forum to see what people are saying about the match and saw someone post a picture of a bonfire in Ireland as one of the examples of why people don't like the English. 

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't imagine any English people were responsible for burning the tricolour in Belfast/Derry or wherever that is. 

I know 'our' history and that's why some of the Irish don't like us but I get defensive when its aimed at people of my generation. If anyone else wants to make the point of why we are disliked then carry on. Maybe post some pictures of dead bodies after bloody Sunday or Bobby Sands where he's starving to death. 

I'll go elsewhere for the football chat. 

That more or less my sentiments.

At some point you just have to let go of the past and move on. Otherwise you're doomed to eternal conflict.

Sadly, there are too many unwilling to do that.

 

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34 minutes ago, Uwe said:

My thoughts on the anti English feelings 

it's a disgusting lazy stereotype to keep attaching the English people to a past that we’ve overwhelmingly wanted to move away from and this won't be the last time people from another country label them us such a way.
Politically speaking, I wouldn't be too surprised to find out the instigators of the abuse would situate themselves further right than the majority of the people they target with this slander.

 

 

 

Agree.

The Germans still get the Nazi tag thrown at them and its the same for us with the colonial / slavery thing.

Considering for the most part we're talking about events that happened 100-200 years ago, it is pretty ridiculous.

Funny how we hear very little bashing of the Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch or French for the same things.

 

I also think its incredibly sad that a forum thread that is supposed to be about England reaching their first final for over half a century has apparently been hijacked for the purposes of discussing all the bad things that happened in the past.

 

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It's not history though, it's present, that photo was from last night and took place all over the country here. part of Ireland is still in the UK and ruled from London, same as Scotland. Both countries were dragged out of the EU despite voting against it due to that rule still existing. Whether you agree with it or not, the conflict and tensions are entirely understandable unless you're just ignorant of the facts. 

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3 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Sorry, what I meant to say is:

200.gif

IT'S COMING HOME!

Or as the fans usually sing it:

A scummy gnome,

A scummy gnome,

A scummy,

Football scummy gnome...

🤪

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1 minute ago, AnglianRed said:

That more or less my sentiments.

At some point you just have to let go of the past and move on. Otherwise you're doomed to eternal conflict.

Sadly, there are too many unwilling to do that.

But it's not up to any one person to decide what another person is capable of or willing to be moving past. There are all kinds of things that we seem to want people to move past without appreciating why they can't or won't. And I really don't like it when people who haven't experienced something in the same way as another expect people who have to move past it. I've experienced it when people who've never struggled with their mental health, for example. A former boss of mine felt the same about my mental health, he pretty much wanted me to move on from it without ever understanding it or having those kind of problems, that's not fair.

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11 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

I also think its incredibly sad that a forum thread that is supposed to be about England reaching their first final for over half a century has apparently been hijacked for the purposes of discussing all the bad things that happened in the past.

I mean you're talking about it too so aren't you hijacking it too? 😄 At some point, you might say, we all have to move on from this subject to prevent that. 😉

I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that the football will still take up a lot of this thread. But we are pretty much still in the same stage we have been since Wednesday night right now. People who are savouring the day are probably spending it with their family and making the most of it, preparing for tonight. At least I'd like to think so for those who can.

The football chatter will come though, the team news will come from both teams in an hour or so, the coverage will start at about 7 I imagine, then the game itself will be on and I'm sure nobody will be thinking of anything else at that time.

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3 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Getting back to the football! Oh wait...

 

F***ing c***s 🤦‍♂️

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12 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

But it's not up to any one person to decide what another person is capable of or willing to be moving past. There are all kinds of things that we seem to want people to move past without appreciating why they can't or won't. And I really don't like it when people who haven't experienced something in the same way as another expect people who have to move past it. I've experienced it when people who've never struggled with their mental health, for example. A former boss of mine felt the same about my mental health, he pretty much wanted me to move on from it without ever understanding it or having those kind of problems, that's not fair.

I can’t see how those things are connected. You’re talking about a personal trauma that some fucktard had no empathy for. We’re talking about historical actions that have nothing to do with but are expected to shoulder the guilt for. 
 

But I do hope you told him/her/them to do one tho mate. 👍

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4 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

It's not history though, it's present, that photo was from last night and took place all over the country here. part of Ireland is still in the UK and ruled from London, same as Scotland. Both countries were dragged out of the EU despite voting against it due to that rule still existing. Whether you agree with it or not, the conflict and tensions are entirely understandable unless you're just ignorant of the facts. 

You clearly missed the bit where I said "for the most part".

And even so, there are better ways of dealing with the issues you're talking about than the kind of ridiculous behaviour we've been seeing.

Besides, as has been very well pointed out, anti-English sentiment was alive and kicking long before the referendum. All thats done is give them one more thing to complain about.

 

They way Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP go on you'd think it was all part of some diabolical Westminster / Tory scheme to screw over the Scots and NI, when in fact it was simply an unfortunate series of events.

In Scotland's case they voted to remain part of the UK, then Cameron had his idea to have the Brexit referendum.

Just bad timing, thats all.

Its also what happens when countries with relatively small populations are linked to one with a much larger population. The mass of votes will usually carry them along with the major partner.

Scotland becoming independent could have major security ramifications, given the Navy's submarine base is located there, as are many of the shipbuilding facilities the government relies on to build its warships.

With the potential military / defence implications, I can understand the government's reluctance to give in on Indyref 2 (even if I do think it would be fair).

 

The Northern Irish have no room to talk as they couldn't even agree to work together for the best part of 2 years.  Stormont sat empty because the political parties there basically a big bunch of unruly kids. Yet they want to have a go at England for ruining their lives? Think they should look in the mirror first.

Hell - if you're going to look at it like that, maybe England should be split in 2, given around 48% voted against the referendum? It'd be only fair, right?

 

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26 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

But it's not up to any one person to decide what another person is capable of or willing to be moving past. There are all kinds of things that we seem to want people to move past without appreciating why they can't or won't. And I really don't like it when people who haven't experienced something in the same way as another expect people who have to move past it. I've experienced it when people who've never struggled with their mental health, for example. A former boss of mine felt the same about my mental health, he pretty much wanted me to move on from it without ever understanding it or having those kind of problems, that's not fair.

I was talking specifically about historical events that are a lifetime or more in the past.

That is in no way similar to dealing with personal issues - anxiety, stress, grief or whatever.

 

History is just that. The best we can do is try to learn from it and not repeat mistakes that were made.

 

When people / countries don't move on, all you get is unending conflict and turmoil. How is that better than resolving to leave the past in the past and try to work together for a better future?

 

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17 minutes ago, Uwe said:

I can’t see how those things are connected. You’re talking about a personal trauma that some fucktard had no empathy for. We’re talking about historical actions that have nothing to do with but are expected to shoulder the guilt for. 

But I do hope you told him/her/them to do one tho mate. 👍

But NB4 isn't asking me or you to shoulder the guilt for anything here, mate, like he said, he doesn't hate us. I think he'd just appreciate a bit of empathy to his point of view, to the reason for his feelings. Something that is very personal to him.

As I said earlier in relation to yourself, your feelings around Scottish people and how they feel about England, that's very personal to you, I wouldn't expect you to move past it whether it was actively affecting you or if it was 30 years ago, that's not my place to do. There's a reason you still keep track of that memory and it shouldn't really be on anybody else to force you to move past that, should it?

EDIT - I wish I'd told him to do one but it probably would have got me sacked before they did eventually let me go for what I can only say was rumoured to be something similar, given it was technically the end of my contract anyway. As is often the case with our industry, the more influential person can essentially handle the situation however they want because the power they hold over you is too much for a poorly unionised industry to react to and good luck getting another job without their backing. We deal because without doing it, we wouldn't be in a job.

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There have been many wars and invasions over the centuries in Europe and in most cases even the victor eventually went home and left the nation which they conquered. Germany, Poland, France just to name a few yet Scotland 100's of years later are still under English rule and we wonder why the "Clearances" and other historic pains are still "remembered" in Scotland, grudges and hatred still prevailing.

With regards to Northern Ireland the English planted Protestants into Northern Ireland forcing the locals from their homes and farms in a deliberate and planned bit of ethnic cleansing. Someone previously mentioned Bloody Sunday where people were marching for equal rights yet they were battered and shot for having the temerity to want to have a vote amongst other things. Truth is that wouldn't have happened in say Blackburn or Middlesbrough or Birmingham but out of site out of mind in Derry. The "division" over there both politically and geographically is an English thing not an Irish creation and it causes real pain every single day for those who live there even though the Good Friday agreement papered over it. 

Is it any wonder that the "disaffection" for want of a blunter phrase is still very real and very raw. The "Loyalists" in Northern Ireland feel abandoned and realise that they will soon be outnumbered and that their ability to rule by fear and domination is over and are now in a race to the bottom. Their outstanding Unionist belief and Loyalty has been spurned and now with the Protocol arguments feel more disillusioned and sold out than ever. Republicans of course can sit by and watch the motherland and Loyalism tear themselves apart. Loyalty is apparently worth nothing, indeed if truth be told most English people would be quite happy to cut Northern Ireland adrift sooner rather than later.

These are todays feelings and emotions over the border and over the Irish sea, that people here don't understand that is part of the problem which is why it still perpetuates and will continue. Meanwhile we have a generation of easily offended and entitled scrotes wrecking their own Capital City this afternoon and disrespecting law and order because they can with impunity.

 

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