sanddancer 1,964 Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 My take on the situation is different to the structured beliefs of many the club has a long term plan. I don’t think the club has a plan, but I would not go as far as denying they may be developing one. Even after 19 years in the Premier we had no obvious identity or structure and spent more then we earned to remain relevant. Just look how fast we slid into obscurity because the things we valued were less then there worth. I would argue the out of the box IKEA stadium was financially viable but it ripped away the atmosphere and identity of the town resulting in a clinical soulless persona of a lifeless club pretending to be something it wasn’t. The training facilities on the other hand promised so much but produced so little as a second source of income and when the cash tap was shut off, well you know the story. The point being we have always had a haphazard approach reacting to problems once they have matured, which one could argue were often caused by poor decisions and risk inheritance. Mangers with little or no experience and players with no resale value. My faith in the clubs ability or even want to improve the clubs position is somewhat near the zero mark because in my ears I still hear them the old adage of “cutting the cloth” the “developing a club the town can afford” In a nut shell I don’t believe there is a target manager, I don’t believe we have ambitions for promotion other then if it can be achieved on a low budget and a bit of luck, go up, come down. My only hope is to see some decent football.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Redcar Rioja 5,870 Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Any Football Manager plan is only for 18 months at best. Championship Managers average less than 400 days in the position. If they last longer then it's because they are successful even if it is only relative, for example Dyche at Burnley compared to Guardiola at City. A 3 year plan makes sense but that rarely happens, just look at WBA, Bournemouth or even Watford as an extreme example. The position and appointment of Scott is the plan, the continuity and execution of it will be whoever is sat in the dugout at any given point in time. Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 43 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said: Whoever comes in next, I seriously bloody hope Scott is doing the choosing. Can't stomach another "club legend" or useless dinosaur from Gibson. And I'm not sure I agree with the 'might as well let Warnock finish the season' opinions. We're going to waste the loan signings (and the money spent on them) under him in another pointless mid table season. Siliki, Sporar, and Hernandez will be gone in the summer and we're back to square one in terms of recruitment. Definitely agree about the next manager. He has to be someone chosen with a definite plan in mind...a manager who will want to / be able to work with the players Scott wants to recruit and turn us into a promotion chasing outfit. Someone who wants to play a modern attacking style of football that will be less easy for opposition teams to predict and negate. For me, Warnock still has 6 games to show he can integrate the new players and get them playing as a team. After that, if things haven't improved from yesterday's ***-show, I will definitely be joining the Warnock Out faction. My only caveat to that is I want to give Scott & Gibson as much time as possible to find the new Chosen One to turn the club around. If that means writing off this season and settling for another mid-table finish, so be it. Its nothing more than I expected when we found out Neil was staying on this season. I think (or at least hope) the club are currently caught between two stools, trying to make a success of this season, while also laying the groundwork for next season. Have to say I've been generally underwhelmed by the players we've brought in (with a few exceptions). It points to a policy of trying to give NW the kind of players he wants to work with. To my mind this means he has no excuses if he can't make them work. One definite anomaly is Payero. This seems to be one of just a couple of examples of us looking to next season. Certainly doesn't look like he'll get any game time under Warnock. He might be the next Juninho, or could end up being the next Emnes. Until we see him in competitive action we just won't know. But I think its a perfect example of our haphazard recruitment. We splurged £6m on a midfielder the manager doesn't want to play, when we already have plenty of midfielders. IMO that money would have been better spent on cover for Bola. Link to post Share on other sites
Humpty 3,238 Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 11 hours ago, sanddancer said: My take on the situation is different to the structured beliefs of many the club has a long term plan. I don’t think the club has a plan, but I would not go as far as denying they may be developing one. Even after 19 years in the Premier we had no obvious identity or structure and spent more then we earned to remain relevant. Just look how fast we slid into obscurity because the things we valued were less then there worth. I would argue the out of the box IKEA stadium was financially viable but it ripped away the atmosphere and identity of the town resulting in a clinical soulless persona of a lifeless club pretending to be something it wasn’t. The training facilities on the other hand promised so much but produced so little as a second source of income and when the cash tap was shut off, well you know the story. The point being we have always had a haphazard approach reacting to problems once they have matured, which one could argue were often caused by poor decisions and risk inheritance. Mangers with little or no experience and players with no resale value. My faith in the clubs ability or even want to improve the clubs position is somewhat near the zero mark because in my ears I still hear them the old adage of “cutting the cloth” the “developing a club the town can afford” In a nut shell I don’t believe there is a target manager, I don’t believe we have ambitions for promotion other then if it can be achieved on a low budget and a bit of luck, go up, come down. My only hope is to see some decent football.. These events literally heralded the clubs golden era. A trophy, consistent premier league seasons, cup finals, European football… 2 Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Humpty said: These events literally heralded the clubs golden era. A trophy, consistent premier league seasons, cup finals, European football… I think what Sanddancer meant is that while things seemed good on the surface - the big name signings, the sustained run in the PL, the League Cup win and UEFA Cup adventures, not all was well behind the scenes. Like he said, once McLaren left for the England job, look how fast things went south. The rookie manager appointment, the cost-cutting and our rapid descent into the Championship...from which we've never really recovered. Despite having a few seasons' of parachute payments to try and sort things out. The gist of his post, (if I'm reading it right), is that with hindsight, it seems the club was spending unsustainably and had no clear plan, either to keep us in the PL, or to get us back there once we went down. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
sanddancer 1,964 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, Humpty said: These events literally heralded the clubs golden era. A trophy, consistent premier league seasons, cup finals, European football… Humpty I agree it was the greatest era in the clubs history but due to poor decisions that proved unsustainable due to unfavourable results caused issues and once SG investment dried up we had little else funding to fall back on. We spent for the moment and failed in planing the future. I believe and this was covered by another poster. Not enough thought or money was spent on finding the right manager or investing in players with any real resale value. The training facility is superb and it’s fed some great young players just not near enough, so-return on investment is rather low, but I would argue it doesn’t need to be and could quite easily change. Not faulting the stadium but the remit location and design is typical of most in that it follows a trend of locating them out of town, near transport routes and parking. A basic identity kit designed for functionality and like most, unless brimming with supporters, soulless. Why on earth they didn’t allow or encourage a like for like and allow the Holgate to simple relocate behind the goal was a tragedy for me. Edited September 13, 2021 by sanddancer 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sanddancer 1,964 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 9 hours ago, AnglianRed said: I think what Sanddancer meant is that while things seemed good on the surface - the big name signings, the sustained run in the PL, the League Cup win and UEFA Cup adventures, not all was well behind the scenes. Like he said, once McLaren left for the England job, look how fast things went south. The rookie manager appointment, the cost-cutting and our rapid descent into the Championship...from which we've never really recovered. Despite having a few seasons' of parachute payments to try and sort things out. The gist of his post, (if I'm reading it right), is that with hindsight, it seems the club was spending unsustainably and had no clear plan, either to keep us in the PL, or to get us back there once we went down. Interpretation is correct, thank you for simplifying. Link to post Share on other sites
Humpty 3,238 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 I understood your note regarding poor decision making but I don’t see the link between the “IKEA stadium”, the training facilities and the hotel (I believe that’s what you’re alluding to). These are undoubtedly superb assets to a club like ours. As I said we wouldn’t have had the success we had from the late 90’s to the mid 2000’a without them. Even now with all the bad decision making and poor planning that gone on for years, we’re still attracting players, in part due to the quality of the training ground and outstanding hotel and facilities within which we can house and support players from outside the area. We’ve certainly thrown money at the club without and serious planning and long term thinking that’s where our issue lies not the new stadium, training facilities or hotel. Link to post Share on other sites
Borodane 6,246 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 After the start to the season there is still no doubt in my mind that under Warnock we are not going to finish higher than 8th, so if the club keep him they are just signaling that they are already writing off the season and just passing time. While we've done reasonably will in the transfermarket - on paper - there is no ambition on the sideline to actually go for promotion. It is what it is. Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Borodane said: After the start to the season there is still no doubt in my mind that under Warnock we are not going to finish higher than 8th, so if the club keep him they are just signaling that they are already writing off the season and just passing time. While we've done reasonably will in the transfermarket - on paper - there is no ambition on the sideline to actually go for promotion. It is what it is. That was pretty much my assumption when it was announced Warnock would be staying on this season. While we seem to have had a fairly good transfer window and brought in a lot of "Warnock type" players, I'm not convinced they are sufficiently good. Even if they were, I don't think his preferred tactics can cut it any longer. Last but not least, even without the other two factors, I'm not sure he can keep them sufficiently motivated throughout the season to deliver their best. Then we've got the whole Payero fiasco and the fact we neglected to bring in any cover for Bola, while signing more midfielders than he knows what to do with. Link to post Share on other sites
Boro 86 511 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Should change the title to another week!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
RiseAgainst 3,776 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Think the title should be "another game", if the rumours are true that he won't last beyond Tuesday night. Shame, but I think the game's up. Let's just hope we have a replacement cued up, otherwise we'll end up with Leo as our interim manager. Link to post Share on other sites
TLF10 4,440 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said: Think the title should be "another game", if the rumours are true that he won't last beyond Tuesday night. Shame, but I think the game's up. Let's just hope we have a replacement cued up, otherwise we'll end up with Leo as our interim manager. What have you heard mate regarding rumours? Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,228 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 I suspect Graeme Lee will take temporary charge if he goes. Link to post Share on other sites
Skinemrippers 894 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 It does feel like the tide is turning against Warnock now. I don’t think he’ll want to stay anyway - he always said he wanted to prove to Gibson how good he is. Not going to happen I’m afraid. Just hasn’t worked 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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