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Warnock........is he worth it?


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2 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Kenyon was around when we appointed karanka, and is a hell of a lot more experienced in managerial appointments than Scott. I'm sure Scott would appreciate his input and advice if nothing else.

We managed to poach Scott from a 'lesser' role at a 'better' club. He may be grateful of the input but I'd have thought just as likely he'll be expecting the keys to the car entirely.

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21 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

Indeed. I really worry that some fans think all we've got to do is appoint a sporting director and it'll be straight back to the Robson/McClaren days almost instantly. We still have all the same financial challenges, we are still a club in the north east who aren't especially fashionable, we still have the weight of expectation around our neck from the Robson/McClaren eras.

Of course that can definately happen but the only other option we have is gibson going through his Facebook friends.

He has gone for a candidate who has experience in a similar role and by all accounts a good track record at doing his last job, also working under and learning from a guy who at our level has been excellent for Norwich.

I’d understand if gibson had appointed another cronie like the PR guy or some random former player. But he hasn’t and I don’t think we could have asked for and acquired someone much better than Scott.

Even if Scott does fail I won’t put any blame on gibson, he’s done what we all wanted. There is no crystal ball in football where failure rates are high in general. If it doesn’t work out then it’s just ‘one of those things’.  What I hope doesn’t happen in this situation is once again we tear it all up and go back to FB friends.

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20 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

Of course that can definately happen but the only other option we have is gibson going through his Facebook friends.

He has gone for a candidate who has experience in a similar role and by all accounts a good track record at doing his last job, also working under and learning from a guy who at our level has been excellent for Norwich.

I’d understand if gibson had appointed another cronie like the PR guy or some random former player. But he hasn’t and I don’t think we could have asked for and acquired someone much better than Scott.

Even if Scott does fail I won’t put any blame on gibson, he’s done what we all wanted. There is no crystal ball in football where failure rates are high in general. If it doesn’t work out then it’s just ‘one of those things’.  What I hope doesn’t happen in this situation is once again we tear it all up and go back to FB friends.

I agree its an exciting appointment and it does appear to be one that is well thought-out, rather than Gibson utilising his own limited network as you say. Gibson is at a point of his ownership where he has to try something, the last 15 years have been by and large awful compared to the first 12, but all I'm saying is that there are no guarantees it will work out, and if it doesn't, I really don't know where Gibson goes from there. The club treading water with a 'decent' chairman doesn't appear to be enough for most fans.

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16 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

I agree its an exciting appointment and it does appear to be one that is well thought-out, rather than Gibson utilising his own limited network as you say. Gibson is at a point of his ownership where he has to try something, the last 15 years have been by and large awful compared to the first 12, but all I'm saying is that there are no guarantees it will work out, and if it doesn't, I really don't know where Gibson goes from there. The club treading water with a 'decent' chairman doesn't appear to be enough for most fans.

If it doesn’t work out I’d hope we appoint another DoF like other teams do. 
At the end of the day it’s not like the alternative was working and yielding results, it was broke and needed fixing.
 

Scott isn’t the only guy in the world who can do this job and if anything the field will only grow as younger people see it as another route into professional football.

Either way I think we should let him actually do some work first before we consider his replacement (;

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Just now, LinoJo3 said:

If it doesn’t work out I’d hope we appoint another DoF like other teams do. 
At the end of the day it’s not like the alternative was working and yielding results, it was broke and needed fixing.
 

Scott isn’t the only guy in the world who can do this job and if anything the field will only grow as younger people see it as another route into professional football.

Either way I think we should let him actually do some work first before we consider his replacement (;

Of course, but my point is that the fans' patience soon runs out if you get it wrong. If the first two SDs don't work out Gibson will be under as much pressure for that as he is for 'bad' managerial appointments. It really is his last throw of the dice in terms of ideas I think, so much rides on it because I think he'll feel like jacking it in if it that happened.

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3 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

Of course, but my point is that the fans' patience soon runs out if you get it wrong. If the first two SDs don't work out Gibson will be under as much pressure for that as he is for 'bad' managerial appointments. It really is his last throw of the dice in terms of ideas I think, so much rides on it because I think he'll feel like jacking it in if it that happened.

I agree, you can tell already he’s kind of had enough with it all. Apparently letting bausor do a lot of the work and now finally getting a DoF in, it always was going to happen at some point.

However I feel the reason fans got frustrated at his appointments not working we’re more because of who he got in. Unqualified jobs for the boys types who you just knew wasn’t going to work. Or the unimaginative, low effort managerial appointments. You could see these decisions were holding us back in comparison to other clubs that used to be our rivals.

I feel the (majority of) fans will be far more patient/forgiving if we can see sound reasons behind an appointment. For me and many others Scott ticks those boxes.

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2 hours ago, GrimsbyBoro said:

Not sure we still are:

1 season in the premier league in 13 years

6 or 7 managers in 5 years. 

4 years of telling everyone we have no money.

A chairman that interferes in transfer activity. 

there is a lot of good stuff at Boro but I don’t think we are the club we were.

or if you discount caretaker managers we have had 13 managers since 1986 including the current incumbent, do your job properly and you'll be given time. 

averages at about 2.5 years, which is average

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16 minutes ago, estonpidge said:

or if you discount caretaker managers we have had 13 managers since 1986 including the current incumbent, do your job properly and you'll be given time. 

averages at about 2.5 years, which is average

2.5 years sounds about right for a club like ours. We are not successful or even stable enough to keep a manager for much longer than that. 

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29 minutes ago, estonpidge said:

or if you discount caretaker managers we have had 13 managers since 1986 including the current incumbent, do your job properly and you'll be given time. 

averages at about 2.5 years, which is average

But anyone looking at the stats can see an enormous change since last time we were in the PL (which I'm sure will be common across the whole of professional football). But the point is we are more or less just like any other club now, and any other chairman. The manager gets about 6 months grace to start with, then after that there's usually a split in opinion, half the fans want to stick and half the fans want to twist, then eventually most fans want to twist. In our case, since our last relegation, its unheard for a manager to be widely popular beyond about 10-12 months.

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11 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

In our case, since our last relegation, its unheard for a manager to be widely popular beyond about 10-12 months.

That's true, but needs to be judged in the context that those managerial appointments have been consistently awful. Pulis, Woodgate and Warnock were never the sort of managers fans would support once any honeymoon period wore off, or give the benefit of the doubt to. Monk was sufficiently unknown at that stage to be given a chance, but his rush-goalie tactics were shockingly naïve and the fans quickly turned.

If we'd appointed someone decent since Karanka left - even an astute lower-league manager like Phil Parkinson - I think the fans would have stayed loyal to them for far longer, in the hope it'd work out. Yes, we're quite fickle these days, and yes, there's a lot of kneejerk reaction to a bad result. But we've hardly spent the last few years watching managerial nous unfolding like petals on a flower.

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4 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

That's true, but needs to be judged in the context that those managerial appointments have been consistently awful. Pulis, Woodgate and Warnock were never the sort of managers fans would support once any honeymoon period wore off, or give the benefit of the doubt to. Monk was sufficiently unknown at that stage to be given a chance, but his rush-goalie tactics were shockingly naïve and the fans quickly turned.

If we'd appointed someone decent since Karanka left - even an astute lower-league manager like Phil Parkinson - I think the fans would have stayed loyal to them for far longer, in the hope it'd work out. Yes, we're quite fickle these days, and yes, there's a lot of kneejerk reaction to a bad result. But we've hardly spent the last few years watching managerial nous unfolding like petals on a flower.

Yeah the appointments have, certainly in hindsight, looked awful, but all I'm saying is that Scott may make appointments which continue to be perceived as 'poor in hindsight' if they fail to deliver. Scott's appointment is merely a change in approach, it brings no guarantees.

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21 minutes ago, boro_fan_in_brum said:

Anyone think he could be gone if it’s another bad result tonight

Probably not. I think it’s going to take a visible turn from the crowd to get him gone.

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54 minutes ago, boro_fan_in_brum said:

Anyone think he could be gone if it’s another bad result tonight

Probably not tonight, I reckon he has the two games before the international break to show something. Although I reckon Gibson will be pretty unhappy with his comments that were blatantly aimed at our 3 biggest acquisitions of the summer in Payero, Siliki and Sporar, so you never know what's going on behind the scenes.

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