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Warnock........is he worth it?


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Been told he’s off

Easy enough to write patronising rubbish when you don’t actually support  the club? We are only Middlesbrough after all? Narrative seems to be ‘stop moaning, be grateful for what you have, with a bit

Revisionism and nonsense. 49 goals in a full season under Pulis, 68 and 63 in our seasons under Karanka. We might have been shot shy and moved the ball a bit ponderously under Karanka but we played ha

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4 minutes ago, nunthorpered said:

My interest in the team and club has hit an all time low actually. Just don't look forward to games anymore. 

I get this. I’ve seen some pretty poor efforts in my 47 years supporting the lads (the early 80s was an especially poor vintage) but the past 5 years has been very dispiriting. I can just about accept the turgid football if it is purely a means to a successful end, but we are just getting the worst of both worlds currently and it’s tough in the fans.

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20 minutes ago, McMordie said:

When Strachan took over we were fourth in the Championship, having just come out of the Premier League, with parachute payments and having won 50% of our games up to that point in the season.

We also didn’t have a good side then, and absolutely no money at all hence our signings that summer were Lita, Coyne, Yeates. We got relegated from the Premier League because we were nowhere near good enough for that level, and that was before we sold Downing, Huth, Tuncay, and then Johnson.  Most of that squad wouldn’t get into our current side if you think back to it.  In fact I wouldn’t even want most of them in the squad now let alone the team.

if it’s a results business then Warnock’s aren’t good enough, and neither were Strachan’s.  If it’s a results business.

 

 

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My problem with the Gazette right now is that in conversation with Craig Johns, I've felt like he's on the defensive. Now he's entitled to his opinion and all that, we all are. He thinks Warnock can turn this around and make this situation come good, fair enough, he might be right, who knows.

And maybe this is just me in my ire seeing something that isn't there... but I think his opinions around Warnock are potentially creating a situation where he's now willing to take on the fans.

 

So Johns is planning on writing an article which goes through theories and complaints that 'aren't true' and the first one he's letting us know about is that he sees shots taken as chances created and so we clearly do create more chances than the odd couple. And this isn't just an opinion here, this is Johns going out to prove things are objectively untrue going by this tweet here. Please somebody tell me I'm being daft here because I see this and I don't like where this is going.

I don't like the idea that a Gazette reporter is more willing to challenge fans on their views on this team than they are to challenge the manager on theirs, particularly during a period where the manager is not just failing to achieve his aims but also is finding any excuse beyond his own decisions and capabilities to blame for the lack of success. As an aside, it's perhaps worth adding Johns has also claimed he doesn't see what Warnock says and think he's making excuses, just responding to questions. This is obviously more of an opinion than a fact either way but an interesting thing to note regardless.

So really, if you're going to do this, I sincerely hope for his own sake that he's going to do better than misrepresent facts and figures to fit his own opinions on the manager. Saying this and equating shots to chances is mind boggling for a football journalist to me. I can't understand why anyone would do it unless they're building a defence of Warnock's team and are heading into straw clutching territory.

I don't mean to sound like a *** on this, I actually quite like Johns and how he communicates on Twitter. He's more actively engaging with the fans than any of the others have been in recent years I feel and I don't want that to stop really. But I think he needs to be a little careful about where he's heading maybe. Maybe others will disagree with me on that.

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What annoys me is that with all the appointments of Pulis and then Warnock is just an acceptance of pragmatic football, where style is sacrificed over results. 
 

When that no longer was the case with Pulis he left, but I’m unsure as to what Warnock is bringing to the table. 
 

At least with Pulis it was exciting to watch Adama develop and grow and just breeze past players. It was of course, one dimensional but there was an element of some excitement. With Warnock there is literally non.

 

We’re at the stage where we get excited when we string passes together. That’s the basics of football.  If that’s not a massive wake up call for people and the higher ups as to where we are, then they really have lost touch with what we as fans want. 
 

Warnock for his tactics is reliant upon results at the expense of his style. He is a dying breed of football manager for a reason. Football has moved on, but Gibson again has misjudged the direction of travel by holding on to him for so long. The lives of Coventry are now over taking us while we go backwards. Forest have shown that a manager can hold a team back and the impact a manager can have, again why are we so slow?

the football is dire. His excuses are laughable. His treatment of players from a coaching point of view are so archaic. He has sent out players who he doesn’t fancy and they are flourishing. His ‘trusted’ players are at the expense of our own. There’s just so much that I’m fed up with. 
 

With Pulis I really hated football by the end of it, Woodgate I wanted it to work so bad, but all the signs pointed to another poor choice. Now here we are holding on to Warnock when everyone can see it’s far too long. 

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My point is that you are interpreting statistics selectively.

When I said it's a results business I was referring to the comments about the style of play and my belief that results are likely to be better going forward if we stick with Warnock than if we don't. I totally respect that you have a different view and you could be right or I could be right - we'll probably never know because he's not Schrodinger's cat. However, I don't think there's any reason to show anyone else would have done better than he has from where he started and I'd prefer to give him a chance with the post transfer window squad because I personally think that gives us the best likelihood of better results going forward. You don't and that's fine - football forums are all about different opinions.

I do see the point you and others have made about the atmosphere around the club. If it's as bad as suggested that might change my view.

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6 minutes ago, McMordie said:

My point is that you are interpreting statistics selectively.

When I said it's a results business I was referring to the comments about the style of play and my belief that results are likely to be better going forward if we stick with Warnock than if we don't. I totally respect that you have a different view and you could be right or I could be right - we'll probably never know because he's not Schrodinger's cat. However, I don't think there's any reason to show anyone else would have done better than he has from where he started and I'd prefer to give him a chance with the post transfer window squad because I personally think that gives us the best likelihood of better results going forward. You don't and that's fine - football forums are all about different opinions.

I do see the point you and others have made about the atmosphere around the club. If it's as bad as suggested that might change my view.

I’m not looking at any results selectively. I’ve put all of Warnock’s up, and unless your standards are simply very low then I’m not sure how you can interpret them as good.  It’s slightly better than Woodgate, who was terrible, and slightly better than Strachan, who was also terrible.  Did you want either of those two to continue, and if not then what are the differences because it clearly can’t be results?

I know why you said it was a results business.  You do it for the same reason everyone else does, as an excuse for poor football.  The problem is that our results haven’t been good either, so it’s a moot point really.  You can hold any opinion you like but if you bring up stuff like it’s a results business to support that opinion then somebody might actually look at those results, and see what they show.

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16 minutes ago, Mfcdanny said:

Can he get anymore up warnocks ***. 

infuriating to read, talking about having 12th highest shots in the league and 11th highest XG like those are stats to be proud of concidering the squad we have.
also, only 2 team out of the 14 ahead of us have had less shots which says it all really about the importance of getting shots on goal .
Additionally, the long ball being outdated speil, long ball can be effective, but not the hit and hope style warnock and co play. City and liverpool play long balls (especially city with ederson from the back) but its calculated, there not just lumping it forward hoping for the knockdown.

could complain about the rest, but i think those two points were his worst.

 

EDIT: just wanted to add one more, he says defense isnt the problem its elsewhere, Well no ***, we all know its the manager. But also, weve only kept 3 clean sheet in our last 20 league games. if that isnt a defensive problem i dont know what is

Edited by tmcc
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Well there we go, it's come sooner than expected and suitably he is finding facts to suit the opinion rather than basing his opinion on facts.

All this just to challenge fans on their views whilst the manager gets away with murder.

He's not just taking up an odd position but this is an awful time to take up this position and stand by this utter trash.

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If it makes anyone feel any better, Lewis Wing has just scored for Wednesday with a cracking header from a Marvin Johnson cross.

The only one of our players who scores with a header these days is Joe Lumley.

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