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Warnock........is he worth it?


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6 hours ago, Foxtrot Oscar Colin said:

Honestly we can't keep playing players like tav and Jones wing back. We're going to ruin them. We don't have wingbacks so the last formation in the world we should be thinking about playing is 532. If warnock isn't good enough to coach a back 4 then he needs to get a new defence coach in that can. The bloke is absolutely useless.

Thats my opinion but I actually agree with you I know that's what that dinosaur will do because he's clueless and he loves sucking the life out of any creative talent we have by throwing them in stupid positions. I'm staying away from the stadium until we start playing players in the correct positions and ditch this pathetic 5 at the back its atrocious.    

If hall and fry injured and still nobody back who was out last game. 

                   Lumley 

   Howson Bamba Mcnair Bola 

Watmore Tavernier Crooks Jones 

           Sporar     Ikpeazu 

 

The problem is that even in your team there we have people out of position, so it's likely to happen whatever we do.  In this particular instance, it's not so much about not being able to use a back four, it's more that we don't have a back four to use, unless people are actually fit that we don't yet know about.  You said in your reply to me that a back four of Howson, Bamba, McNair and Bola isn't good enough, so it doesn't make much sense to then say that this is what we must do?   

Another option, still three at the back, would be to drop Howson in there, and leave Bola as a left wing back.  Then you're just looking for a right wing back I suppose but then you also have Howson out of position, and you need to find someone to replace him in midfield.

My own preference is always to use younger players when you are short of numbers.  That always seems like the ideal opportunity to bring them in, and it gives them a chance to show what they can do at the same time.  For some reason though we appear to have systematically moved lots of them out of the club.  Not just the obvious squad players like Spence, Coulson, and Wing, but didn't we also send out the next left back in line as well?  Can't remember his name but I'm sure I remember seeing something on here about it?  Wood has obviously gone out as well and isn't playing, which was kinda predictable to everyone but the people working for this football club it seems.

Ultimately, Warnock isn't that interested in them anyway.  He is going to do what he believes to be best for himself, and that isn't going to be playing young lads unless he has absolutely no choice at all.  Even when he does, he will find a way to criticise them (Jones).  His lads will usually be blameless though, and then people wonder why some of his previous players spoke so highly of him.  He always looks after his lads, it's just everyone else who gets *** over.

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13 minutes ago, DurhamRed said:

Is payero back in the country does anyone know 

He's currently in a safe house somewhere in Buenos Aires under constant guard.  It's the only way to guarantee his safety.

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4 hours ago, Changing Times said:

The problem is that even in your team there we have people out of position, so it's likely to happen whatever we do.  In this particular instance, it's not so much about not being able to use a back four, it's more that we don't have a back four to use, unless people are actually fit that we don't yet know about.  You said in your reply to me that a back four of Howson, Bamba, McNair and Bola isn't good enough, so it doesn't make much sense to then say that this is what we must do?   

Another option, still three at the back, would be to drop Howson in there, and leave Bola as a left wing back.  Then you're just looking for a right wing back I suppose but then you also have Howson out of position, and you need to find someone to replace him in midfield.

My own preference is always to use younger players when you are short of numbers.  That always seems like the ideal opportunity to bring them in, and it gives them a chance to show what they can do at the same time.  For some reason though we appear to have systematically moved lots of them out of the club.  Not just the obvious squad players like Spence, Coulson, and Wing, but didn't we also send out the next left back in line as well?  Can't remember his name but I'm sure I remember seeing something on here about it?  Wood has obviously gone out as well and isn't playing, which was kinda predictable to everyone but the people working for this football club it seems.

Ultimately, Warnock isn't that interested in them anyway.  He is going to do what he believes to be best for himself, and that isn't going to be playing young lads unless he has absolutely no choice at all.  Even when he does, he will find a way to criticise them (Jones).  His lads will usually be blameless though, and then people wonder why some of his previous players spoke so highly of him.  He always looks after his lads, it's just everyone else who gets *** over.

There's only howson out of position in the team I put out I would say. Mcnair I don't rate highly in cb but he's good enough to say he's not out of position as say howson is. Honestly that defence isn't good enough but we have 2 fit defenders at this moment in time as far as I know. That to me is better than playing a couple of lads in wingback who look like fish out of water trying to defend because they are out of position. Tavernier is our best footballer he needs to be in the centre of midfield so we have a chance of controlling possession there for me it's his best position and warnock is totally wasting him imo playing him out of position.

We need to go back to basics try to play players where they are best suited. We also need 2 strikers on the pitch because none are good enough to play alone. 

Like I said previously if there is an u23 who is playing well in rb I'd happily have him in over howson against posh but I don't know who plays there or how good they are so I can't really say anybody other than howson can play rb in the team the way things stand right now. Honestly if I see tav and anyone else playing as wb who isn't a wb I don't think I can even watch another game ill pretty much be done for quite a while 😅

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4 hours ago, Changing Times said:

The problem is that even in your team there we have people out of position, so it's likely to happen whatever we do.  In this particular instance, it's not so much about not being able to use a back four, it's more that we don't have a back four to use, unless people are actually fit that we don't yet know about.  You said in your reply to me that a back four of Howson, Bamba, McNair and Bola isn't good enough, so it doesn't make much sense to then say that this is what we must do?   

Another option, still three at the back, would be to drop Howson in there, and leave Bola as a left wing back.  Then you're just looking for a right wing back I suppose but then you also have Howson out of position, and you need to find someone to replace him in midfield.

My own preference is always to use younger players when you are short of numbers.  That always seems like the ideal opportunity to bring them in, and it gives them a chance to show what they can do at the same time.  For some reason though we appear to have systematically moved lots of them out of the club.  Not just the obvious squad players like Spence, Coulson, and Wing, but didn't we also send out the next left back in line as well?  Can't remember his name but I'm sure I remember seeing something on here about it?  Wood has obviously gone out as well and isn't playing, which was kinda predictable to everyone but the people working for this football club it seems.

Ultimately, Warnock isn't that interested in them anyway.  He is going to do what he believes to be best for himself, and that isn't going to be playing young lads unless he has absolutely no choice at all.  Even when he does, he will find a way to criticise them (Jones).  His lads will usually be blameless though, and then people wonder why some of his previous players spoke so highly of him.  He always looks after his lads, it's just everyone else who gets *** over.

Yes, Jack Robinson - gone to Yeovil on loan after playing in preseason. Next man up though, Kokolo is starting to feature on the bench now.

On 10/6/2021 at 8:20 PM, Changing Times said:

Lol 😀

I think we'll beat them.  Whether it's a big win or not I suppose we'll see but I think we'll have too much for them overall.  We might not be at our best but we are still a better side than they are.

I know I'm late to this one but this is literally what we all said vs Hull too and look how that turned out 😄

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1 hour ago, Foxtrot Oscar Colin said:

There's only howson out of position in the team I put out I would say. Mcnair I don't rate highly in cb but he's good enough to say he's not out of position as say howson is. Honestly that defence isn't good enough but we have 2 fit defenders at this moment in time as far as I know. That to me is better than playing a couple of lads in wingback who look like fish out of water trying to defend because they are out of position. Tavernier is our best footballer he needs to be in the centre of midfield so we have a chance of controlling possession there for me it's his best position and warnock is totally wasting him imo playing him out of position.

We need to go back to basics try to play players where they are best suited. We also need 2 strikers on the pitch because none are good enough to play alone. 

Like I said previously if there is an u23 who is playing well in rb I'd happily have him in over howson against posh but I don't know who plays there or how good they are so I can't really say anybody other than howson can play rb in the team the way things stand right now. Honestly if I see tav and anyone else playing as wb who isn't a wb I don't think I can even watch another game ill pretty much be done for quite a while 😅

Watmore isn't a right sided midfielder either.   A midfield two of Crooks and Tav probably wouldn't offer a great deal of protection to a back four that you've already said isn't good enough.  So I think there are problems with your line up, but of course there would be problems because of the squad that we've put together.

I actually agree with the point you're making though, and I don't like seeing the likes of Tav or Jones played as wingbacks either.  I just think there's a strong possibility that we could see that in the next game.

I honestly believe we are one of the worst run clubs in English football.  The boneheaded stuff we do shouldn't be acceptable but clearly it is because we keep doing it.

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1 hour ago, Brunners said:

I know I'm late to this one but this is literally what we all said vs Hull too and look how that turned out 😄

Yeah I know what you're saying but to be fair that was an away game.  We're at home against a team whose best result away from home this season is a 1-0 defeat.  Their other games have seen them concede three goals three times, and six goals once.  I'd be surprised if that isn't one of the worst starts ever to a Championship season set of away games.  It's not like they've played the top sides either - Luton, Preston, Sheff Utd, Reading and Coventry.  Coventry aside the rest aren't lighting it up really.  Even allowing for injuries we should have enough to compete in this game and get a win.

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36 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Watmore isn't a right sided midfielder either.   A midfield two of Crooks and Tav probably wouldn't offer a great deal of protection to a back four that you've already said isn't good enough.  So I think there are problems with your line up, but of course there would be problems because of the squad that we've put together.

I actually agree with the point you're making though, and I don't like seeing the likes of Tav or Jones played as wingbacks either.  I just think there's a strong possibility that we could see that in the next game.

I honestly believe we are one of the worst run clubs in English football.  The boneheaded stuff we do shouldn't be acceptable but clearly it is because we keep doing it.

Would you say watmore isn't a winger? It's probably where he's played most of his football that I can ever remember in previous seasons. For us mainly on the left but he's definitely played on the right alot at Sunderland. This season been more of a forward but last season he was used alot as a left winger with defensive duties from my memory. Again I would say he's the best option for that position at the moment with the injuries as he works hard and has enough pace and technical ability to provide a threat. 

Playing 2 in centre midfield wouldn't really be any different to any of the other formations we play as we generally are left with 2cms but we don't have anyone to provide that screening for the back but tav is a decent tackler he wins the ball quite often in one on one duels and crooks has enough presence for me it would be better than howson and Siliki... much better. 

I agree with you tho the options are poor in certain positions and we are still somehow left with an unbalanced squad due to shocking management of the squad. Its an absolute joke it really is. 

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59 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Yeah I know what you're saying but to be fair that was an away game.  We're at home against a team whose best result away from home this season is a 1-0 defeat.  Their other games have seen them concede three goals three times, and six goals once.  I'd be surprised if that isn't one of the worst starts ever to a Championship season set of away games.  It's not like they've played the top sides either - Luton, Preston, Sheff Utd, Reading and Coventry.  Coventry aside the rest aren't lighting it up really.  Even allowing for injuries we should have enough to compete in this game and get a win.

I would agree with you on this, I just can't shake the "typical Middlesbrough" thing. Hull were also a team last game who were *** terrible at home (and in general really). Giving Peterborough their first away win of the season feels like something we will do.

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20 minutes ago, Foxtrot Oscar Colin said:

Would you say watmore isn't a winger? It's probably where he's played most of his football that I can ever remember in previous seasons. For us mainly on the left but he's definitely played on the right alot at Sunderland. This season been more of a forward but last season he was used alot as a left winger with defensive duties from my memory. Again I would say he's the best option for that position at the moment with the injuries as he works hard and has enough pace and technical ability to provide a threat. 

Playing 2 in centre midfield wouldn't really be any different to any of the other formations we play as we generally are left with 2cms but we don't have anyone to provide that screening for the back but tav is a decent tackler he wins the ball quite often in one on one duels and crooks has enough presence for me it would be better than howson and Siliki... much better. 

I agree with you tho the options are poor in certain positions and we are still somehow left with an unbalanced squad due to shocking management of the squad. Its an absolute joke it really is. 

I know what you're saying about Watmore but I think he's played there when we've had better cover in midfield behind him.  If he played out wide and we had three in midfield I could say fair enough, or if he played out wide and we had like Clayton and Leadbitter in midfield.  You'd be asking him to play ahead of Howson, and with a midfield two of Crooks and Tav.  It feels a little flimsy and I'm not sure that would work that well.  Having said that, Peterborough have been so bad defensively away from home that with our injury issues, our best chance might simply be to try and get our goals and not worry about the defensive side of things 🤷‍♂️

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19 minutes ago, Brunners said:

I would agree with you on this, I just can't shake the "typical Middlesbrough" thing. Hull were also a team last game who were *** terrible at home (and in general really). Giving Peterborough their first away win of the season feels like something we will do.

If we lost to Peterborough on the back of losing to Hull, it would be two of the worst consecutive results we've had in a while.  It would also mean that we'd lost to all three promoted clubs within the space of five games, and two of those would be at home.  Then we'd have Barnsley at home on the Wednesday, and that would be the three worst teams in the division as it stands.  I think Gibson is banking on us winning those two games in order to calm people down so he doesn't have to do what he already should have done.  In fact, it's Cardiff after that and they are the next club up in the table.  We're basically playing the bottom four all in a row so from that point of view we couldn't have it any better.   If we lost the lot then Warnock would be gone but I think we'll win a couple of them.

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4 hours ago, Changing Times said:

If we lost to Peterborough on the back of losing to Hull, it would be two of the worst consecutive results we've had in a while.  It would also mean that we'd lost to all three promoted clubs within the space of five games, and two of those would be at home.  Then we'd have Barnsley at home on the Wednesday, and that would be the three worst teams in the division as it stands.  I think Gibson is banking on us winning those two games in order to calm people down so he doesn't have to do what he already should have done.  In fact, it's Cardiff after that and they are the next club up in the table.  We're basically playing the bottom four all in a row so from that point of view we couldn't have it any better.   If we lost the lot then Warnock would be gone but I think we'll win a couple of them.

In our final four games at the end of last season we lost away to Rotherham and at home to Wycombe, two of the three relegated sides (we actually managed to beat Wednesday). We are just seeing a continuation of poor organisation, tactics and management into this season. Playing personnel may have changed considerably but they are set up to lose in exactly the same manner.

I think I'd be more surprised if Warnock actually reversed his trend of buckling to crap sides and picked up some points. Peterborough to me has all the hallmarks of them ending their terrible run of form rather than us getting back in the saddle. Warnock has to start on the front foot and put them to the sword by half time as they can't defend and we haven't got enough fit defenders but I just know it won't happen, it never has under Warnock.

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46 minutes ago, Rat catcher said:

"Warnock has to start on the front foot and put them to the sword by half time" I cannot remember the last time we left the field 3-0 up at half time. Has Warnock ever achieved this ?

Millwall in December.

We were 3-0 up after 20 minutes.

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