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Warnock........is he worth it?


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1 hour ago, Borodane said:

After the start to the season there is still no doubt in my mind that under Warnock we are not going to finish higher than 8th, so if the club keep him they are just signaling that they are already writing off the season and just passing time. While we've done reasonably will in the transfermarket - on paper - there is no ambition on the sideline to actually go for promotion. It is what it is.

That was pretty much my assumption when it was announced Warnock would be staying on this season.

While we seem to have had a fairly good transfer window and brought in a lot of "Warnock type" players, I'm not convinced they are sufficiently good. Even if they were, I don't think his preferred tactics can cut it any longer. Last but not least, even without the other two factors, I'm not sure he can keep them sufficiently motivated throughout the season to deliver their best.

Then we've got the whole Payero fiasco and the fact we neglected to bring in any cover for Bola, while signing  more midfielders than he knows what to do with.

 

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Think the title should be "another game", if the rumours are true that he won't last beyond Tuesday night. Shame, but I think the game's up. Let's just hope we have a replacement cued up, otherwise we'll end up with Leo as our interim manager.

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2 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

Think the title should be "another game", if the rumours are true that he won't last beyond Tuesday night. Shame, but I think the game's up. Let's just hope we have a replacement cued up, otherwise we'll end up with Leo as our interim manager.

What have you heard mate regarding rumours?

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It does feel like the tide is turning against Warnock now. I don’t think he’ll want to stay anyway - he always said he wanted to prove to Gibson how good he is. Not going to happen I’m afraid. Just hasn’t worked 

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Our fixtures become interesting after Sheffield United. Away to Hull next Saturday then we have a run of Home games to Peterborough and Barnsley then Away to Cardiff, Warnock's old Club who are struggling (although not quite as bad as ourselves), Home to Birmingham, Away to Luton before we go to the Hawthorns to face the Baggies on the 6th Nov.

We then have two consecutive Home games against Millwall and Preston before a trip to Huddersfield on the 27th November. On paper there are some very "winnable" games amongst that lot so would it be fair to let Warnock have that run to save himself and get things back on track or is it too risky to let the performances continue and see those potential points frittered away like we have all year?

It could be argued that it would be reasonable to give him those games but the reality is that we are seeing nothing that gives us any reason whatsoever that Warnock has a grip and is going to tun it around. There has been little logic, shape or reason as to how he sets his sides up. Our defence is as poor as I have seen from a Boro side in a long time. If we were solid at the back, keeping clean sheets while boring us to death there would at least be some merit in his thinking but porous doesn't begin to describe us.

Our Midfield is a disjointed mess, they cant cover and shield the defence and they can't set up attacking passages of play. They seem to run around chasing back (or more likely chasing their man to mark) after we lose possession or running up chasing long punts, then running back again, then running up again meanwhile adding little of merit or quality. It's clear that it is due to tactics rather than them all being useless (including Howson in fairness). Their passing and ball retention is painful to watch rendering them a weak and ineffective unit regardless of personnel. The fact that we are lamenting the loss of a fairly basic clogger in Morsy illustrates just how desperate we have sunk and how low our expectations now are.

Attack? I can only chuckle at the thought of us actually looking like we can attack and record efforts be they on or off target. With just about zero threat or opportunities, bereft of any quality of service we look hopeless.  Ikpeazu can be a real handful and Sporar has class yet neither seem to be effective in a Warnock side. 

We have played many teams already with far fewer resources than Warnock has at his disposal and have been found wanting on each and every occasion with the exception of bottom of the table Forest who immediately sacked their Manager. Derby are a basket case and a collection of journeymen players and Rooney's nous (Rooney and nous in the same sentence is something I thought I would never be typing) but they comfortably nullified Warnock. Mark Robbins and Coventry (with their own set of off field issues for years) and limited budget of a side bettered us with ease. Reading with an inexperienced Keeper (not that it mattered as his Kit won't need to have been washed by the end of all that added time), and a defence consisting of midfielders square pegged into a makeshift defence kept us at bay with such ease it was demoralising. Then there was Blackpool and copy and paste.

A terrible disorganised Defence, a Midfield that seemingly has a confused purpose and an Attack that rarely if ever threatens leaves me with little reason for optimism. I'm not even sure where to begin in terms of sorting it all out as it is so far off the ideal in every single department that it is scary as to how bad we have become and how likely it is to continue unabated because there are absolutely no signs of something clicking or even just misfiring. It's the dampest of damp squibs. Its like the end of Strachan and Mogga all over, all the signs are glaringly obvious and I suspect the players must think the same despite them being "a smashing bunch of lads really".

If SG made a change now it could get worse but by how much? If he doesn't it could get better but again by how much? Weighing everything up I can't see anything to suggest anything but more of the same for the last quarter of the year and by that time we could be lamenting more lost points against mediocre to poor sides and seriously deep in relegation territory. Hull and Peterborough will be looking at their fixtures against us and seeing them as winnable six pointers, this against a side that had the Play Offs as the target only a few weeks back.

 

 

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If he goes it will be interesting to see who we appoint as he’s replacement.

will we appoint a permanent manager or go with a short term one?

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I think one of Scott's main objectives when he came in was to identify our next manager, that won't have started yesterday because we were rubbish. 

I don't think he'd come here but let's say Eddie Howe was available i think we'd sack NW now, I think he's only still in charge now because we haven't found his replacement yet. 

As bad as it is I don't think we'll sack him just to bring in a temporary manager. 

 

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I was one of those people who criticised fans for getting onto Warnock about a month ago, I just want to apologise to those fans and say that they were right and I was wrong. 
 

the tide must be turning now when the players and the non-coaching staff are pointing a different way from Warnock 

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11 hours ago, Changing Times said:

It's interesting to read this thread and see how much some opinions have changed in about 6 weeks.

Well personally I've gone from Warnock being an okay guy to do a holding job until we get a decent manager in, to "Oh crap the wheels are coming off...are we going to have to get someone in to keep us in the division?"

Which is highly ironic given how Warnock came into the job.

 

Its also worth bearing in mind that last season we had 16 points form our first 9 games, which would put us 6th (the spot Blackburn currently occupy).

Our only defeat was away at Watford - opening game of the season. From our other games we had 4 wins and 4 draws, which would have had even Warnock's biggest critics thinking that maybe he wasn't so bad. At least we were getting results, even if the football was terrible.

We'd scored 8 goals (1 less than this season) but only conceded 5 (versus 11 this season).

 

So I think its fair to say things have definitely taken a turn for the worse. Which is harder to stomach with the amount of transfer activity over the Summer, supposedly giving the manager more of the players he wants.

 

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3 hours ago, boksicdink said:

I was one of those people who criticised fans for getting onto Warnock about a month ago, I just want to apologise to those fans and say that they were right and I was wrong. 
 

the tide must be turning now when the players and the non-coaching staff are pointing a different way from Warnock 

Apology accepted 

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For those that want him out, if there's no obvious candidate available to replace him at the moment would you hold onto him until the right man is available? 

Or would you still want rid of him even if it means being stuck with a temporary manager for the time being? 

I know its a hypothetical question but I'd rather the club take their time finding his replacement than rush into it. 

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5 minutes ago, Duvel said:

For those that want him out, if there's no obvious candidate available to replace him at the moment would you hold onto him until the right man is available? 

Or would you still want rid of him even if it means being stuck with a temporary manager for the time being? 

I know its a hypothetical question but I'd rather the club take their time finding his replacement than rush into it. 

If he goes then Jepson and Blackwell go as well I'd assume.  That leaves Leo and the goalkeeping coach as first team coaches, neither of whom would be ideal.

I'd guess we'd promote from within on a temporary basis, so Craig Liddle again as caretaker, or Graeme Lee, I guess. 

Then it'd be a matter of convincing Gibson to poach Scott's choice of manager.  I assume we were planning on picking someone up out of contract next summer after a mediocre season of Warnock given Steve's dislike of picking up people in contract.

What's Steve Agnew up to these days?  😑

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