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Warnock........is he worth it?


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11 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

I think 9 from 9 is setting the bar a bit high. 7 from 9 would easily see us back in the conversation.

These are three of the worst teams in the league right now coming up. It's not about being "back in the conversation". Promotion chasing teams should be looking for 9 from 9 here.

But this is a Warnock team so we're guaranteed to *** the bed in at least one of the games, maybe even two of them.

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9 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

4 points is not an insurmountable gap over 36 games. It really isn't.

Yes a play-off place is a lottery but anyone expecting (rather than hoping) for an automatic promotion this season was doing so in an absolutely baseless fashion. No one but newly relegated sides could ever demand that from their club in this league, unless perhaps they'd gone extremely close the season before. Warnock was never going to turn water into wine, but he might have/had a chance of sneaking us up there using his experience via the back door. Best anyone could/should have ever been hoping for from him.

We shouldn't be "hoping" he can "sneak us in the back door". With the backing he has had and the players he has at his disposal, this team should be finishing comfortably in the top 6.

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2 minutes ago, Brunners said:

These are three of the worst teams in the league right now coming up. It's not about being "back in the conversation". Promotion chasing teams should be looking for 9 from 9 here.

But this is a Warnock team so we're guaranteed to *** the bed in at least one of the games, maybe even two of them.

I don't think anyone would say we shouldn't be hoping for 9 points, but 7 would more than likely be enough mathematically to get us back into the promotion hunt, mathematically, objectively.

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3 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

I don't think anyone would say we shouldn't be hoping for 9 points, but 7 would more than likely be enough mathematically to get us back into the promotion hunt, mathematically, objectively.

I'm not hoping for 9, I'm expecting 9. If we are truly going for promotion this year, we should be winning these games no excuses.

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2 minutes ago, Brunners said:

We shouldn't be "hoping" he can "sneak us in the back door". With the backing he has had and the players he has at his disposal, this team should be finishing comfortably in the top 6.

Really? How many of our players are proven in this division? What's this 'backing' he's had? We lost a lot of established players this summer and we brought in a similar amount, the vast majority of which were freebies on lower wages than the ones who left. Ikpeazu and Crooks didn't cost a lot and no one knows what Payero cost or even how good he is. If he did cost £6m as originally reported then you may have a point but didn't the club categorically deny that?

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Just now, Brunners said:

I'm not hoping for 9, I'm expecting 9. If we are truly going for promotion this year, we should be winning these games no excuses.

I'm not saying anything other than that 7 points would get us back within a point or two of the play-offs. Do you disagree with that statement?

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Just now, atypical_boro said:

Really? How many of our players are proven in this division? What's this 'backing' he's had? We lost a lot of established players this summer and we brought in a similar amount, the vast majority of which were freebies on lower wages than the ones who left. Ikpeazu and Crooks didn't cost a lot and no one knows what Payero cost or even how good he is. If he did cost £6m as originally reported then you may have a point but didn't the club categorically deny that?

Are you actually just Neil Warnock? We know he reads this forum and you're so pro Warnock, still, despite the shower of *** we've had to watch so far this season. How can anyone that has watched us this year still defend him like you are, I don't understand it.

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Just now, atypical_boro said:

I'm not saying anything other than that 7 points would get us back within a point or two of the play-offs. Do you disagree with that statement?

I have no idea because I have no idea how well the teams above us are going to do.

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9 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Are you actually just Neil Warnock? We know he reads this forum and you're so pro Warnock, still, despite the shower of *** we've had to watch so far this season. How can anyone that has watched us this year still defend him like you are, I don't understand it.

Without getting angry and/or petty, can you at least try and justify this amazing “backing” you claim he’s had, based on the players who’ve left and come in this summer? At best he has a similar standard of squad at his disposal.

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He's got a European striker who played in the Europa league last season 

A centre midfielder who played in the champions league last year 

One of the most highly rated Argentinean players. 

 

Crooks proven at this level 

Then all the others Lumley, Ameobi, Bamba, Peltier he has been backed 

He has Tav, Fry, Bola, Mcnair, Dijksteel to build around too.

 

Sooner this guy is gone the better. 

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15 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

Without getting angry and/or petty, can you at least try and justify this amazing “backing” you claim he’s had, based on the players who’ve left and come in this summer? At best he has a similar standard of squad at his disposal.

Well we kept Fry & Tav first, so that's two huge bits of business.

He's got a CM that was playing Champions League football vs Chelsea last year, with great pedigree. He's got a striker that on early view I would guess is probably one of the most technically gifted in the league. (I know it's not important but he's actually the 2nd best striker in the league behind Mitrovic in Fifa 22 I think, so that shows how highly he's still rated). 

He got the targetman he wanted, he got Crooks who he also wanted who has been (mostly) excellent. 

Plus Payero, an Argentinian U23 international that from the outside he looks like he is horribly mismanaging. 

He's got Jones; a youth product that gives him an actual winger option that he wouldn't have even played had his hand not been forced by his signing (Ameobi) getting crocked immediately.

Not to mention we also tried to spend up to 8m on Muniz.

All this in a covid affected year where income has been severely lowered & you're crazy if you are trying to argue he hasn't been backed amazingly considering all the circumstances.

In absolutely no world can you consider this years squad "of similar standard". You just need to look at our CM options to see that isn't true.

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One thing I don't understand is Warnock said last night after the game about Bamba that he thought he was finished. 

If that's the case, why are you signing him in the first place? Secondly why is/was he our third choice CB and why are you picking him?

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9 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Well we kept Fry & Tav first, so that's two huge bits of business.

He's got a CM that was playing Champions League football vs Chelsea last year, with great pedigree. He's got a striker that on early view I would guess is probably one of the most technically gifted in the league. (I know it's not important but he's actually the 2nd best striker in the league behind Mitrovic in Fifa 22 I think, so that shows how highly he's still rated). 

He got the targetman he wanted, he got Crooks who he also wanted who has been (mostly) excellent. 

Plus Payero, an Argentinian U23 international that from the outside he looks like he is horribly mismanaging. 

Not to mention we also tried to spend up to 8m on Muniz.

All this in a covid affected year where income has been severely lowered & you're crazy if you are trying to argue he hasn't been backed amazingly considering all the circumstances.

In absolutely no world can you consider this years squad "of similar standard". You just need to look at our CM options to see that isn't true.

Well I agree we’ve improved at CM. I don’t think any other area of the pitch has been significantly improved and some have weakened. 

 

we did get a couple of players he wanted upfront t within the wage structure, and lost two other fairy proven Championship strikers.

 

Don’t see how not selling players counts as “backing” as such, it’s certainly not an improvement obviously. I also don’t see how trying to sign certain players but failing should be classed as backing either. Blooding Jones (his choice) and getting him playing is something to commend him for.

 

time will tell if he’s managing Payero correctly, far too early to say.

 

you’ve added the “in the circumstances” bit, and whilst I wouldn’t disagree when you add that caveat, the idea that’s he been backed so well that we should be sitting back and watching us soar back into the PL at a canter is absurd in my opinion. The best I ever hoped for was probably 5th-6th place and win the play-offs. Which is still a genuine possibility and nowhere near as out of the question as some folk seem to be suggesting. Yeah we’ve started badly, form fluctuates, same with almost all sides in this division.

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12 minutes ago, boksicdink said:

One thing I don't understand is Warnock said last night after the game about Bamba that he thought he was finished. 

If that's the case, why are you signing him in the first place? Secondly why is/was he our third choice CB and why are you picking him?

I presume he meant that he thought at 36 year old, having recently beaten cancer, he'd not be able to carry on professionally anymore.

He let Bamba come here to train as a favour to him, and was impressed by what he saw after he arrived and decided to offer him a contract.

I doubt he thought he was finished when he offered him the deal, let's not forget he was here for a good few weeks before he signed a contract.

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24 minutes ago, atypical_boro said:

Well I agree we’ve improved at CM. I don’t think any other area of the pitch has been significantly improved and some have weakened. 

 

we did get a couple of players he wanted upfront t within the wage structure, and lost two other fairy proven Championship strikers.

 

Don’t see how not selling players counts as “backing” as such, it’s certainly not an improvement obviously. I also don’t see how trying to sign certain players but failing should be classed as backing either. Blooding Jones (his choice) and getting him playing is something to commend him for.

 

time will tell if he’s managing Payero correctly, far too early to say.

 

you’ve added the “in the circumstances” bit, and whilst I wouldn’t disagree when you add that caveat, the idea that’s he been backed so well that we should be sitting back and watching us soar back into the PL at a canter is absurd in my opinion. The best I ever hoped for was probably 5th-6th place and win the play-offs. Which is still a genuine possibility and nowhere near as out of the question as some folk seem to be suggesting. Yeah we’ve started badly, form fluctuates, same with almost all sides in this division.

The only place that I don't think has improved is CB and that's mostly because it is basically exactly the same. Think we've improved in CM & up top. 

Not to mention where we are lacking depth (full back spots) are both entirely on him for sanctioning loan moves without being able to get anyone else in. That's on him.

And he didn't choose to blood Jones, he was forced into it by injuries, had Ameobi not been hurt Jones would be up in the Scottish championship again most likely.

I'm not saying we should be sitting back and watching us soar into the PL. This division is tough. However, I do expect to be able to sit back and watch a team actually try and play football rather than whatever the *** it is Warnock makes me watch most games. That Blackpool 2nd half was embarrassing & by all accounts Reading was just as bad. 

That is all on NW. I'll revisit this in a month or so when we've lost to Hull & Peterborough.

 

As far as backing goes, look around the rest of the league, how active everyone else was and tell me NW hasn't been backed.

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